To critique and to criticize are so far apart in meaning that I can understand why some people don't really know the difference.
I think critiquing is very important and shouldn't be looked at as criticism, it is a way of helping the artist by pointing out some features that could be improved and left up to the artist to change or not to change it.
If we don't like to be critiqued, that means we think our work is perfect or flawless, in which most cases we aren't.

This is an excellent observation. Not only does confusion arise from language or cultural differences, it's that you can miss out on the flavor and tone of a response when you're simply reading a post on a forum. For example, it might be hard to determine if someone is using sarcasm in a humorous fashion or if they actually mean what they're writing. I think you can only pick up on some of these kinds of subtleties if you're in the same room with someone, hearing them speak and seeing their body language.

I think this is an excellent approach and probably one we should all try to follow.


I believe some of this can be attributed to cultural differences mentioned previously. Many of us have been taught that if we don't have something nice to say, we shouldn't say anything. It can be difficult to break out of that mindset, even in a forum where negative critique is acceptable, and even solicited.

Occasionally, I might comment on a piece of art I like, without explaining why. If I don't particularly care for a piece of art, I'm probably not going to saying anything, because it's just my opinion and what I like might not be what others like. Personally, I can't really offer constructive critique on hand drawing or painting because I lack experience in that area. Occasionally, I offer suggestions on how I think a render might be improved.

On the other hand, I would expect members who post hand drawn works in the art section, would want those with hand drawing and painting experience, like yourself, to offer critique. Some members even solicit that kind of critique.

I do think it's very normal for there to be more posts like "Very nice!" or "That's cool!" than posts with detailed constructive critique, for the reasons previously mentioned and due to the fact that it can be a time consuming process, where one must be arduously tactful with their criticisms.

My biggest problem on GC is that some members can jump in with "this is wrong and that is wrong" without saying anything positive about the piece and without giving any ideas as to how it might be corrected. Accomplished artists might be OK with this but it can be very discouraging for new artists. People don't necessarily want critique - they might just want to share what they have accomplished, especially if they are already well aware of their failings and faults.

I haven't noticed much of that kind of thing occurring on here, hardly at all, actually. I don't know of any instances of someone labeling a members art as "wrong", without offering suggestions for improvement. I don't know of any instance of someone stating they disliked another member's work, without offering suggestions. What's the point of doing that, anyway? Only trolls would engage in such inappropriate posting.

Certainly in an open forum, anyone can sign up and post whatever they want, as long as they don't violate basic posting guidelines common on many public forums, such as engaging in trolling, using sock puppets or ad hominem attacks on other members.

@GnuTux
I can certainly agree with that point. And if I had a choice between a forum that is too nice and one which is too harsh, I'd pick the kinder one every time. I've seen what it can do to a community if people in general start to take on a harsher tone (this tends to be an average-age thing too). Likewise, a neutral "looks good" statement is better than no comments at all.

Of course I too abstain from extensively critiquing in some situations (here and elsewhere). Most often it is because the artwork is in a style or using tools I know little of (GIMP filter manipulations are not my forte for example). With art I could critique my reluctance is rarely because I'd have a hard time balancing the good with the bad but rather either because it's clear the artist is a beginner, very young or shows other signs of not taking critique very well. When it comes to the beginners and young people, detailed critique can harm confidence and cause people to quit (the "I cannot draw" phenomenon) rather than help. Other people just immediately gets passive aggressive when getting critique, regardless of how mild it is - in that case the critique would not help anyone anyhow.

But frankly, if an artist older than, say, twelve asks for feedback, I have no sympathy for them if people replies to them honestly, even if that feedback is negative. Asking for feedback and censoring anything but praise cheapens the time you get real praise, as ofnuts points out. If they don't want any feedback, they need to say so. People can't read minds.

@Erisian
While unsubstantiated negative critique is not really helping anyone, I have found it useful to reply with follow-up questions. As it turns out most often people are not intentionally trying to bring you down, they are just not thinking, are in a hurry or are expressing themselves less clearly than they think. Asking them for a more elaborate explanation for why they don't like something is polite and also makes them aware you (not you personally, artists in general) wants to hear their opinion. If they don't reply, well ... if they can't elaborate on their opinions that's a good sign one need not be too concerned about those opinions, right?

I've got to agree with GnuTux that I've not seen much such unsubstantiated critique here (at least none that could not become substantiated with a little back-and-forth), but I certainly don't follow all threads by all means.
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Griatch

I learned a little later to give my opinion only when it is demanded.
It is a way to avoid hurting someone who is very happy with the result of his work and he has no intention to improve it.

Perhaps you have taken my sentence too literally. As Griatch has said, these people are not attacking but are criticizing the piece without thinking - maybe they are in a hurry or something, but I didn't mean to imply that anybody was being nasty. There have been clear cases of this and I know of people who have been hurt by it. When I have more time for the net I will prove it to you by collecting examples but I will PM it to you to avoid bad feeling.

Griatch - As stated, I didn't mean to imply that anybody was being nasty. Yours is a good way of dealing with the situation.

Todays W.T.Duck: http://www.gocomics.com/wtduck/2014/06/26

If something I make needs improvement and I am not told on how to improve how can my next design get better? I'm still a beginning Gimp user and I want to make professional looking designs with Gimp and the only way I can do that is by others' feedback. I view feedback as a way to know what I need to work on with my designs.

Extended the first post a little to include pointers about language barriers discussed in the thread since. Also reordered the bullet points a little to make the dual relationship between critiquer and critiquee somewhat clearer.
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Griatch

I'd like to think that people used discretion and courtesy with things like this in a forum such as this.
I have always found people here to be just those things, as well as being able to have a chuckle over
many things as well.. The best forum I have ever had anything to do with over the years

I think that when we do critique someones work we keep in mind that the result they achieved may have been exactly what they were going for. That being said, I don't believe "right", "wrong", "good" or "bad" are ever appropriate words for most critiques.

I have said things such as "I like how that looks. I wonder how it would look with..." There it's positive and honest, with only a suggestion of another option they may not have thought of. They may like the idea and play with it or ignore it. It's their choice. It's a simple and positive way to make a suggestion. It's easy to do when you like the work you see.

Photomaster, I wonder how cool your animated cube would look if there were also animations within the cube as well. You know, making different faces in each cube facing as the cube itself spins in its own animation.

As someone of very limited skill in the artist's department (evidenced by the drawing of the house in the image with my signature) I find it impossible to comment critically on artwork and creative imagery. My usual response is one of awe at the skill and dedication and admiration for the hours of work that must have gone into creating and refining images; I have to rely on how the piece makes me feel - and reactive emotions are a very subjective experience.

People who post their artwork are obviously proud of their achievements - and rightly so. My dilema is how to offer feedback without appearing to be trite or someone who wants to play the 'boost my number of posts' game. I usually see Wallace's signature and think 'yep, me too'. Perhaps I will create a series of 'WOW" stamps to use in a token of appreciation. As I said on joining I think that this is a very supportive site and this is one of its key strengths.

I have just added my approximate location. There are many posters for whom English is not their first language but it is impossible to tell from their writing - c'est magnifique (pardon my French). If nuance of language may be an issue in critical appraisal of work then the inclusion of user location would certainly help to signal a need for cautious interpretation of comments - we only have to look at the way that American English and British English words can have very different meanings to understand how easy it is to give others the wrong impression.

A very interesting and thought-provoking post!

@Skinnyhouse

Some good thoughts there, thanks!

Many people seem to be reluctant to give critique because of some notion of "I couldn't do better myself so who am I to comment?". Which is strange considering there is no such requirement for any critic, in any field (are professional film critics always famous producers themselves?).

At any rate, one does of course not have to give highly technical advice if one doesn't feel confident to do so. In fact, only simple the fact that you are a different person from the artist gives you the edge - you see things from a perspective and with experiences they do not. This can be extremely valuable in itself. I take as example a relative of mine, who on many an occation has looked at my artwork and pointed out things like "this arm looks wrong to me". Often she can't really say exactly why from an anatomical standpoint, nor how to fix it. But It's still important information to me to know that someone may look at that arm and think it look weird - maybe I've missed something? It's still a very useful piece of information despite coming from someone with no technical art skills except a pair of different eyes than mine. So don't be shy to give critique, and artists - don't be shy to suck as much juicy info from that critique as you possibly can.
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Griatch

A majority of artists want you to critique their work based simply on your observations (examples explained by Griatch) not because you are an art history major or professional (or not) artist. It allows them and us to fix things that might be off on the image/artwork.

Feedback is like handing someone a gift. It's up to the recipient to receive it in the same manner. So, acknowledging artwork you find pleasing to your eyes is a perfectly acceptable activity. A "WOW" would be perfectly suitable to the recipient, a reason why, even more so.

Example: WOW! I really like the way you use a combination of colors in your art.

OR

WOW! Your line work is exceptional.

Anyone who would feel slighted by a non-professional artist critiquing their work is an artist for all the wrong reasons. Rod, Lyle, PhotoComix, Photomaster, and many many more, all have contributed artwork that has inspired me and created improvements in my own. Be not afraid to send your drummer and banner holder forward. We all have a role to play.

This is a great thread that I read long ago when I first joined the forum - thanks to Griatch for posting this up in the first place.

For me when I comment on other people's work - I don't always know what feedback I can give to help them improve. In these instances I try to share the impact that the piece has had on me - I believe it is always useful for an artist to know how their art affects the viewer.

And I agree about keeping things pleasant - even if the feedback I'm giving is about something that I think could be improved upon.

Keep up the awesomeness people!

I enjoy critique when it comes to something I make, mainly because I'm colorblind so sometimes people point stuff out to me that I would have never noticed. I think a respectful critique is always welcome as long as it has good intentions.

Basically, my dad taught me, "People seek critiques to learn and improve their skills." I know I have learned huge amounts from people here, and I am mega-thankful. Remember, however, that being overly critical of anyone's work could come across harshly and can actually discourage someone from continuing their progress. If there is anything I want to say, that I think might be taken wrong, I prefer to pass on it. By the same token, when I see something I like, I like to make a point of it because it could encourage someone who might otherwise be going through a discouraging time. Critiquing, when done in a positive way, can be a great boon to another Gimper.