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 Post subject: ArchLinux
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:31 pm  (#1) 
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I was curious if anyone here had experience with Arch Linux, particularly with graphics tools (GIMP, MyPaint, Wacom toolset). I'm thinking of switching over from Ubuntu. I like the sound of Arch, since it seems to resemble my first distro (Gentoo), but with easier package management.


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 Post subject: Re: ArchLinux
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:41 pm  (#2) 
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Arch does seem to have really good documentation. Not sure if I'd like a rolling release, though. Have you considered testing it out in a VM before making the switch?

Let us know your progress. Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: ArchLinux
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 3:25 am  (#3) 
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Quote:
...Not sure if I'd like a rolling release..


I am the other way round, the thought of reinstalling every six months to "get-the-latest" does not appeal.

I use PCLinuxOS, which is a rolling distro, Downsides are:
You do have to be conscientious about updating all Trying to update the odd package will break something.
You are reliant on the packagers for up dates.

So far so good Gimp 2.8.14; Krita 2.9.5; MyPaint 1.1.0

Package management, although PCLOS is an rpm based distro it does use a version of Synaptic. Makes installations very easy.

Best advice is from GnuTux, try out in a VM or for a short try a live DVD.

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 Post subject: Re: ArchLinux
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:27 am  (#4) 
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I'm using Antergos (Arch fork, easy install) since six or seven month ago. I'm happy. No problems till when kernel is upgrade with installed apps of moment.
I'm tired with upgrade each six months some distros. The most of times installing from zero, the install again the apps. Never works for me properly FedUp.
May be possible that i change my debian for sparky linux debian 8 based and RR (its said).

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 Post subject: Re: ArchLinux
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 3:56 pm  (#5) 
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GnuTux wrote:
Arch does seem to have really good documentation. Not sure if I'd like a rolling release, though. Have you considered testing it out in a VM before making the switch?

Let us know your progress. Thanks!


I haven't thought about a VM, actually. I've never set one up. I do have a spare laptop that's just sitting idle. The battery no longer holds a usable charge, but everything else seems to still work on it.

I'm a bit surprised I stuck with Ubuntu as long as I did. To its credit, it works well once I get it installed. The exception is when it's time to update. I have never been successful at using the built-in upgrade feature; I always had to reinstall from scratch. I also have an unusual monitor setup that Ubuntu doesn't seem to recognize correctly. As it seems to be moving away from config files, I've had more battles with it. I prefer to simply hand-configure xorg.conf, etc.

Good to hear GIMP and MyPaint work! Thanks for the advice, too. I think I'll either figure out how to get a VM running, or just test on a spare computer.


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 Post subject: Re: ArchLinux
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:22 pm  (#6) 
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rich2005 wrote:
Quote:
...Not sure if I'd like a rolling release..


the thought of reinstalling every six months to "get-the-latest" does not appeal.

That doesn't appeal to me either. Fedora provides support and updates for several months after the previous two releases, so one does not have to update Fedora 20 until a couple of months after the release of Fedora 22, which means the user only has to update about every 14 month or so. Since releases normally get pushed back, that usually extends to needing to update around once every 1.5 years, longer if you decide to skip another release.

merrak wrote:
I haven't thought about a VM, actually. I've never set one up. I do have a spare laptop that's just sitting idle. The battery no longer holds a usable charge, but everything else seems to still work on it.

That would probably work better than a VM for testing your I/O devices.

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 Post subject: Re: ArchLinux
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:02 pm  (#7) 
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merrak wrote:
GnuTux wrote:
Arch does seem to have really good documentation. Not sure if I'd like a rolling release, though. Have you considered testing it out in a VM before making the switch?

Let us know your progress. Thanks!


I haven't thought about a VM, actually. I've never set one up. I do have a spare laptop that's just sitting idle. The battery no longer holds a usable charge, but everything else seems to still work on it.

I'm a bit surprised I stuck with Ubuntu as long as I did. To its credit, it works well once I get it installed. The exception is when it's time to update. I have never been successful at using the built-in upgrade feature; I always had to reinstall from scratch. I also have an unusual monitor setup that Ubuntu doesn't seem to recognize correctly. As it seems to be moving away from config files, I've had more battles with it. I prefer to simply hand-configure xorg.conf, etc.

Good to hear GIMP and MyPaint work! Thanks for the advice, too. I think I'll either figure out how to get a VM running, or just test on a spare computer.


Can you post a bit more about your laptops specs (including graphics card) and your level of experience with Linux?


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 Post subject: Re: ArchLinux
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:37 pm  (#8) 
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David-C wrote:
merrak wrote:
GnuTux wrote:
Arch does seem to have really good documentation. Not sure if I'd like a rolling release, though. Have you considered testing it out in a VM before making the switch?

Let us know your progress. Thanks!


I haven't thought about a VM, actually. I've never set one up. I do have a spare laptop that's just sitting idle. The battery no longer holds a usable charge, but everything else seems to still work on it.

I'm a bit surprised I stuck with Ubuntu as long as I did. To its credit, it works well once I get it installed. The exception is when it's time to update. I have never been successful at using the built-in upgrade feature; I always had to reinstall from scratch. I also have an unusual monitor setup that Ubuntu doesn't seem to recognize correctly. As it seems to be moving away from config files, I've had more battles with it. I prefer to simply hand-configure xorg.conf, etc.

Good to hear GIMP and MyPaint work! Thanks for the advice, too. I think I'll either figure out how to get a VM running, or just test on a spare computer.


Can you post a bit more about your laptops specs (including graphics card) and your level of experience with Linux?


To be honest, I don't remember the specs on the laptop. It's very old (2006 Dell Inspiron 5100). My wife used it in grad school and gave it to me when she upgraded. It currently has a 2008 installation of Ubuntu installed.

I've been using Linux since 2007. I started with Gentoo, then moved to Ubuntu around 2010.


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 Post subject: Re: ArchLinux
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:45 pm  (#9) 
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Your laptop sounds like a good candidate for Puppy Linux. Its tailored to run on older hardware.

Pros:

You don't need to update it. It has no concept of updating. Only thing you need to update is your browser.

You don't need to install it (though its optional. It primarily uses a save file system.)

Cons:

Might not work with your graphics tablet.

You should be able to install the latest Mypaint and Gimp, but I'm not so sure about Krita.

The best user friendly one is LXpupThar:

It's got a good package manager that's more bleeding edge than the more traditional Pups. However, I can't vouch for the out of the box graphics tablet driver. I think this one has an update system (this one is not like a traditional Puppy distro) but the updates are very small patches, not to be confused with the huge ones you get with a heavyweight distro. Generally it should auto detect your hardware. Upon first boot, you should run the xorgwizard.

It's worth a try. If you have under 4gb memory, then you should download the non-pae version:

http://lx-pup.weebly.com/current-download.html

It's also got a Windows 8 theme suite I made for it as default.


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 Post subject: Re: ArchLinux
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 8:15 pm  (#10) 
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I often use Puppy Linux for data recovery on both Linux and Windows systems. It is very lightweight and can run from RAM disk. One downside is that Puppy Linux is typically a single user system, running as root, which could pose a significant security risk.

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 Post subject: Re: ArchLinux
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:59 pm  (#11) 
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David-C wrote:
Your laptop sounds like a good candidate for Puppy Linux. Its tailored to run on older hardware.

Pros:

You don't need to update it. It has no concept of updating. Only thing you need to update is your browser.

You don't need to install it (though its optional. It primarily uses a save file system.)

Cons:

Might not work with your graphics tablet.

You should be able to install the latest Mypaint and Gimp, but I'm not so sure about Krita.

The best user friendly one is LXpupThar:

It's got a good package manager that's more bleeding edge than the more traditional Pups. However, I can't vouch for the out of the box graphics tablet driver. I think this one has an update system (this one is not like a traditional Puppy distro) but the updates are very small patches, not to be confused with the huge ones you get with a heavyweight distro. Generally it should auto detect your hardware. Upon first boot, you should run the xorgwizard.

It's worth a try. If you have under 4gb memory, then you should download the non-pae version:

http://lx-pup.weebly.com/current-download.html

It's also got a Windows 8 theme suite I made for it as default.


Never heard of Puppy Linux... sounds promising for reviving the laptop, though.

The only problem with it is that I was looking to test the distro that will replace the OS on my main desktop, which is currently running Ubuntu 13.04 and is a bit more powerful (12GB RAM, dual NVIDIA GeForce GT 430, quad monitor) vs 512MB RAM on the laptop, (unsure of video card).


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 Post subject: Re: ArchLinux
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:17 am  (#12) 
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Moving to Arch was the best linux decision I've made.
I started with Mint then Cruchbang but I wanted a rolling release. The main draw for me was access to newer software.
I've found Arch to be more stable for me that either Mint or Crunchbang. I have also had no problems with Gimp on it or using my wacom, though havent had my wacom in use for a while.
I only have an old (single core 1.6ghz cpu) Acer travelMate 2410 but everything works.

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 Post subject: Re: ArchLinux
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:04 am  (#13) 
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I decided to go with Arch. I can always fall back to Ubuntu if it just isn't working out. I have to say I'm pretty impressed with it so far, though. The documentation is clear and well-written. I got it up and running in only a couple of hours, and didn't destroy my current setup in the process :mrgreen:

It reminds me of Gentoo, but without all the compile times.

Here's a "screenshot", showing elinks.

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I don't even have xorg installed yet. It boots pretty fast without a GUI, but I don't think command-prompt digital art is a thing at the moment.


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 Post subject: Re: ArchLinux
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:19 am  (#14) 
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I haven't Linux for some time, but I truly loved PCLinuxOS. I believe it's gotten even better. Have you ever tried it?

http://www.pclinuxos.com/about/


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 Post subject: Re: ArchLinux
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:33 am  (#15) 
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Quote:
...I got it up and running in only a couple of hours, and didn't destroy my current setup in the process


lol, Have to reply to that one. Obviously depends on hardware and to a certain extent on method, say, DVD versus bootable USB image

but

I have never taken more than about 20-30 minutes to install a modern distro. Maybe the couple of hours comes from Arch's text based installer. Destroy the existing setup, only if you let it happen. Create partitions first, install to those.

When it comes to hardware recognition I come from several years of using Mepis and now AntiX is carrying on the tradition. Last fives years using PClinuxOS and it is as good. I know this from installing for other people. Last time I installed PCLOS for myself was three years ago, rolling distro, still up-to-date.

The only distros I had problems with in recent times, were Fedora and LinuxMint and that was because of the horrible old HP laptop I was using.

Of course adding applications adds to the initial installation time and that does depend on internet connectivity. Again all the modern distros have some sort of package management. I am still using synaptic and know that for example YAST is more flexible/modern. Unfortunately Ubuntu is leading the way in dumbing down everything to Microsoft levels.

Still it is just a matter of selecting packages and hitting the start button.

So, back to earlier advice, do not pre-judge, download those ISO's, get unetbootin or similar, write to a usb memory stick and try them out.

Especially you Windows people ;)

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 Post subject: Re: ArchLinux
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:48 pm  (#16) 
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steven8 wrote:
I haven't Linux for some time, but I truly loved PCLinuxOS. I believe it's gotten even better. Have you ever tried it?

http://www.pclinuxos.com/about/


I've heard about it. I'd prefer to use the command line, though, and I read that PCLinuxOS is more GUI driven.

rich2005 wrote:
Unfortunately Ubuntu is leading the way in dumbing down everything to Microsoft levels.


When I first installed Gentoo, I destroyed my old Windows partition. Granted, I was new to Linux and it was my first jump into it. It was the Gentoo "full" LiveCD that installed its bootloader and corrupted the old system. The minimal CD worked fine, though.

I don't think two hours is all that bad given I'm re-learning most of what I taught myself with Gentoo several years back. Some of that time includes bug-hunting. I burned an install CD for Arch, but apparently Brasero has a bug in it that prevented the CD from working correctly. It boots--but not into a completely valid system.


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 Post subject: Re: ArchLinux
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:43 pm  (#17) 
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GnuTux wrote:
Arch does seem to have really good documentation. Not sure if I'd like a rolling release, though. Have you considered testing it out in a VM before making the switch?

Let us know your progress. Thanks!


That's pretty much it. It took me a while to hunt down all the packages I had before. So far, I'm glad I switched over. It's definitely more hands-on, but I think the rolling release model will work well in long run. The only drawback is that I'm finding there's a lot more support for Ubuntu, which would be a non-issue if there weren't a "Linux = Ubuntu" mindset.

Now that GIMP is up and running, I made some wallpaper to fit around an embedded terminal. (screenshot of only upper right monitor)

http://www.anorthogonaluniverse.com/misc/2015-07-topright.png

I can also now run Krita, so I'm looking forward to experimenting with that. GIMP + Krita seems like a good combination.


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