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 Post subject: The Fabric of the Cosmos
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:11 pm  (#1) 
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Great series, if you're into that kinda thing. :bigthup

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/physics/fa ... osmos.html

If you don't have access to PBS, it can be DL'd or streamed from "various locations" around the web. :hehe

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 Post subject: Re: The Fabric of the Cosmos
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:42 pm  (#2) 
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Thanks for the link Tux; will view it soon. I definitely am interested in this subject. I've since seen several episodes on the Science Channel that confirmed my beliefs to my great delight. I really believe the Big Bang is the White Hole that created our Universe and Space-Time itself is the fabric that is the other side of the event horizon of that White hole. Even the concept of the Holographic Principle eludes to this concept imo. I know we still have a lot to learn but here's another idea that the Holographic Principle to me would lead too. If we are the 3D projection from the fabric of Space Time, then that projection could possibly run backwards so time travel back in time would be possible, but then since it is a Holographic projection (movie if you will), then if you were to go back in time, memory would also be forgotten unless you figure out a way to jump the hologram movie. Just bringing up more concepts from my warped mind. lol

:)

edit:

Just finished watching the first episode; very cool indeed. Will watch the remaining episodes hopefully by the end of this week. Again thanks for the link Tux. :)

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 Post subject: Re: The Fabric of the Cosmos
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:35 am  (#3) 
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I love the fact that PBS is moving their library into streaming via online and via Roku, etc. I watch it a lot. Including this episode. :)

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 Post subject: Re: The Fabric of the Cosmos
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:57 pm  (#4) 
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lylejk wrote:
Thanks for the link Tux; will view it soon. I've since seen several episodes on the Science Channel that confirmed my beliefs to my great delight. I really believe the Big Bang is the White Hole that created our Universe and Space-Time itself is the fabric that is the other side of the event horizon of that White hole. Even the concept of the Holographic Principle eludes to this concept imo. I know we still have a lot to learn but here's another idea that the Holographic Principle to me would lead too. If we are the 3D projection from the fabric of Space Time, then that projection could possibly run backwards so time travel back in time would be possible.

That is an interesting concept, in that we could simply be a 2D projection of the information contained on the surface of a black hole. It's a avenue worth perusing. I'm not so sure that we could ever travel back in time, considering the paradox that arises in that case. The ability to travel forward in time has already been proven, assuming that one can travel near the speed of light (or possibly orbit a black hole without being crushed).

More intriguing is the concept of the multiverse, which could help resolve many of the incongruities of String (M) theory. 11 dimensions may hold the key but I suspect there could be an infinite number dimensions that are simply too small to detect, but we are currently only able to calculate up to 11 dimensions for string theory to make sense. I think we are just beginning scratch the surface in this area.

If I had it to do over, I would have changed my major from computer science and pursued cosmology and theoretical physics. While I love computer science, I'm not cut out for working in the corporate environment.

May we live in interesting times. :smiley2

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 Post subject: Re: The Fabric of the Cosmos
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:16 pm  (#5) 
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Again, if you we are a hologram, if we were to go back in time, we would forget that we did since it would be just rewinding a video, unless you figure out how to jump the movie if you will. This concept also implies that time itself is an illusion in that all times that ever was and will be co-exists. Now digest that thought for a second. lol

I really enjoy this stuff. Christian man (though backslidden) I am, but who's to say how God designed the Universe. Some even suggest that we are actually a computer simulation being run in the distant future and some parts of quantum probability seems to agree with this hypothesis (yes, I watch way too much Science Channel; this concept came from Though the Wormhole by the way; another excellent series if you haven't watched it yet). Who really knows the hand of God and how things are done. Just great that I think therefore I am (but not I Am). Only sentient beings can think and choose to believe based on either facts or faith. :)

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 Post subject: Re: The Fabric of the Cosmos
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:34 pm  (#6) 
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Well, I can accept that the past, present and future is an illusion and everything has already occurred (past, present & future) but rewinding the film to the past doesn't mean you can physically travel into the past.

We can physically travel far into the future, if we can travel fast enough. However, the "arrow of time" seems to move only in one direction. There is an interesting discussion in the 2nd episode of this series that sheds light on this concept.

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 Post subject: Re: The Fabric of the Cosmos
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:34 pm  (#7) 
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Somewhat familiar of the concept of the arrow of time and also the discussion of anti-matter and negative time. Also understand the concept of paralellel universes which means if you should go back in time, you will be actually in a past of a parallel universe (way around the grandfather paradox). Still, I do plan to see all the shows by the end of the week, but do have band practice soon so have to wait until after band practice to see episode 2. :)

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 Post subject: Re: The Fabric of the Cosmos
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:09 pm  (#8) 
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If any type of time/space travel is possible.I believe it would have to be into another dimension.That way you avoid 2 paradox problems -
1) Killing yourself by killing your own Grandfather.
2) The simple fact that if we did travel back in time we should have a time machine here somewhere already.
Presuming someone went back before today's date in time.

Why do scientists believe that if someone in a ship races at the speed of light to another galaxy, and gets there in 10 years, that humans on Earth would be any older than 10 years?

If you travel 1 million light years in 10 years, everyone on earth is still going to be 10 years older.By the time you got back they would be 2x10 years older.Sure you got there fast, but that doesn't change time.

I do not believe in time travel, but i do believe other dimension travel is possible.By folding space.Einstein was a firm believer in this and an experiment was actually concluded. The Philadelphia Experiment.

The Philadelphia Experiment is the name of an alleged naval military experiment said to have been carried out at the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA sometime around October 28, 1943. It is alleged that the U.S. Navy destroyer escort USS Eldridge was to be rendered invisible (or "cloaked") to enemy devices. The experiment is also referred to as Project Rainbow.

The story is widely regarded as a hoax. The U.S. Navy maintains that no such experiment occurred, and details of the story contradict well-established facts about the Eldridge, as well as the known laws of physics.The story has captured imaginations of people in conspiracy theory circles, and they repeat elements of the Philadelphia Experiment in other government conspiracy theories.

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 Post subject: Re: The Fabric of the Cosmos
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:30 pm  (#9) 
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It must be a popular view, here's the message I just received.


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 Post subject: Re: The Fabric of the Cosmos
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:52 pm  (#10) 
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Rod wrote:
Why do scientists believe that if someone in a ship races at the speed of light to another galaxy, and gets there in 10 years, that humans on Earth would be any older than 10 years?

If you travel 1 million light years in 10 years, everyone on earth is still going to be 10 years older.By the time you got back they would be 2x10 years older.Sure you got there fast, but that doesn't change time.

It's because time and space are inextricably connected (space-time) and it's a proven, measurable fact. If you are accelerating in a spaceship to near the speed of light, time within the spaceship slows down for the astronaut, relative to an observer outside the space ship (time dilation). Because of this phenomenon, a trip to the nearest solar system (Alpha Centauri) and back, would take ~10 years traveling near the speed of light, but relative to the outside observer on earth, the trip could take 100 years or more, depending on how close the astronaut came to the speed of light.

This phenomenon has been tested and observed many different ways. In one famous example, two atomic clocks were precisely synchronized. One clock was placed on an airplane and the other left on earth. The plane circled the earth several times at a high rate of speed. After the plane landed the clocks were compared and sure enough, just as the mathematics predicted, the clock on the plane had slowed down, relative to the clock left on the earth. There are numerous other observations that have proven this out as well.

Motion through space not only changes the distance between you and I, but it also changes time between you and I. As far as time is concerned, it's just too small of a difference to notice in our every day lives but there is no doubt that it changes. Even the act of me walking toward you slows down time for me as I cover the distance (space), but it's so small you just don't notice it.

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 Post subject: Re: The Fabric of the Cosmos
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:04 pm  (#11) 
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I love the mirror analogy. Whereas, if one were to look in a mirror while going the speed of light, they would never see their reflection, because it would require the reflection of light to travel faster than the speed of light in order to cast your reflection. When I heard that, I was like Bill, in Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventures.

"Excellent!"

Mind bending stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: The Fabric of the Cosmos
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:30 pm  (#12) 
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Hmmm, I'm not sure how it would work out that way, mahvin.

One counterintuitive aspect of light is that its speed is always constant and it doesn't depend on the motion of the observer. For example, if I were in a car traveling 100mph and holding a baseball outside the window, relative to me, the ball is stationary. A passerby on the side of the road would see the car, me and the baseball whiz by at 100 mph. Now if I were to throw the ball at 50mph in the same direction the car was moving, from my perspective, the ball would be traveling at 50mph. From the person standing on the road, the ball would be traveling at 150mph.

If I were instead holding a flashlight, and turned it on as I passed by the observer, for me the light would be traveling at 186k mps. Relative to the observer on the side of the road, the light would also be traveling at 186k mps, not 186k mps +100mph, as you might logically surmise (as with the baseball). This discovery was a big hint that time and space are inextricably linked.

It has been shown that any object with rest mass (like a human or a mirror or any physical object) can never actually reach the speed of light. The closer an object gets to the speed of light, the more compressed and dense it becomes. If an object could actually reach the speed of light, it would be infinitely dense so that can't happen. Given that, if someone were to move toward a stationary mirror at near the speed of light and shine a flashlight at the mirror, the light could reach the mirror and be reflected back because the person would always have to be moving slower than the speed of light.

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 Post subject: Re: The Fabric of the Cosmos
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:32 pm  (#13) 
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I am only repeating what was mentioned on one of the Wormhole shows. If a person holding a mirror in front of them, while moving at the speed of light (they didnt say they were in a spaceship, etc) the reflection would never catch up with the mirror. I didn't make this up myself, it was stated by a well known physicist on a nationwide television program.

Again, this is theoretical, not definitive. In theory...

I didn't create this argument, but I do know that several physicists happen to disagree with many aspects of Einstein's theories (constants, vacuums, mass) because there is no realistic way for a human to prove them (traveling at the speed of light). I just live on this rock, with nothing to prove.

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 Post subject: Re: The Fabric of the Cosmos
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:09 am  (#14) 
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Assuming that an object could travel at the speed of light, your example would be correct, because both you and the mirror were traveling at the speed of light. I'm only saying that I know of no science or theory where an object could travel at the speed of light. The laws of physics say it can't. Although, there may be some sub-atomic particles (with no rest mass) which can travel faster than the speed of light but afaik, we have yet to observe those.

When it comes to scientific certainty, it behooves all of us to remember the words of William Shakespeare.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy" :hehe

Another interesting concept is the "quantum leap", were electrons can move from one orbit to another without actually traversing the space in between (3rd episode in this series). That's basically a type of teleportation so speed become irrelevant. Once nice thing about science is that it is self-correcting.

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 Post subject: Re: The Fabric of the Cosmos
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:14 am  (#15) 
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And I want a teleport machine network, and RIGHT NOW. Hahaha. I just don't want to be the first tester.

They claim to have subatomic particles traveling faster than light:

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/st ... 50518790/1

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 Post subject: Re: The Fabric of the Cosmos
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:23 am  (#16) 
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Yes, I had already mentioned that. Einstein said that objects with "Rest Mass" can't travel faster than the speed of light so it's possible those particles don't have "rest mass". Whatever the case with sub-atomic particles, certainly a person and a mirror both have "Rest Mass".

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