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 Post subject: Animations - questions..
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:45 am  (#1) 
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Hi everyone,

for my very first message I just wanna say how much I enjoy using GIMP and related stuff (GAP / G'MIC etc..), I'm no artist really but I do a lot of "abstract" images, and animation pieces which I sometimes put to music ...
Everything goes smoothly with the animations.. until.. (usually) around the point my xcf file is 2.1GB's in size. After successfully saving the project many times up until that point I eventually get a message telling me of some problem (see attachment) when saving.. if I try to reopen the file sometimes hundreds of layers will just be missing - I have successfully worked around it using different approaches each time including splitting images to frames and re trying, and a couple of other workarounds which can be long-winded and not always the best way to spend my time!! Anyway does anyone here know of anything that might be causing this problem and any solutions to it?
Grateful thanks.

Martin.


Attachments:
gimp crash.JPG
gimp crash.JPG [ 36.32 KiB | Viewed 773 times ]


Last edited by Zero01 on Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Just one problem with animations..
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:07 pm  (#2) 
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Is it a 32-bit Gimp version or a 64-bit one? What type of filesystem is the disk? FAT32? NTFS?

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 Post subject: Re: Just one problem with animations..
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:46 am  (#3) 
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In addition, to get a full picture, some hardware details might assist. In particular installed memory and available drive space.

A 2GB file is a monster, from what I read there is a 4GB xcf limit in gimp, somewhere in the bug reports so still within limits.

Out of interest what size in memory is Gimp showing when one of these files is open?

This is a 20 MB xcf which increases x3 when loaded. Hover mouse over info bar.
Attachment:
size-in-memory.jpg
size-in-memory.jpg [ 6.71 KiB | Viewed 656 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Just one problem with animations..
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:44 pm  (#4) 
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Thanks for taking time out to reply guys..

Firstly, it's a 64-bit Gimp version, file system is NTFS. I'm using Windows 10 and my installed memory is 16 GB DDR3, available drive space is approximately 771 GB (out of 932 GB), processor is an Intel Core i5 (quad-core) 3.2Ghz, the file size in memory of one of these huge files is about 4.7 GB, so pretty hefty to say the least.

It may be that I am going about animations wrongly, not sure, I simply add layer after layer to act as frames, which I'm guessing is the normal thing to do.. (?)... I'm not overly familiar with some of the technical (artistic) side of things, can just about grasp the technological aspects though.. but bugs and other problems relating to software :tyspin I'm not great with so any help is greatly appreciated.

Cheers


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 Post subject: Re: Just one problem with animations..
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:14 pm  (#5) 
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Gimp can do animations, but this doesn't mean it has been designed for it. When you talk about hundreds of layers you are obviously stretching it to its limits. And how are you going to share a 2GB animation?

There can be more efficient way to work, like using Gimp to create short sequences, save the sequence as individual PNG files, and then assemble all the files as a video using ffmpeg or equivalent.

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 Post subject: Re: Just one problem with animations..
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:52 pm  (#6) 
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ofnuts wrote:
Gimp can do animations, but this doesn't mean it has been designed for it. When you talk about hundreds of layers you are obviously stretching it to its limits. And how are you going to share a 2GB animation?

There can be more efficient way to work, like using Gimp to create short sequences, save the sequence as individual PNG files, and then assemble all the files as a video using ffmpeg or equivalent.


Yeah I realise it's probably stretching it, I had a similar idea about creating short sequences first, might give that a go.. I just downloaded Open Shot video editor maybe I should try my luck with that then, as Gimp isn't really designed for such things.
I use the GAP Video Encoder within GIMP and add sound etc to turn it into an .avi file (which ends up being 100-150MB), then post it on facebook or YouTube, straightforward enough to share it (if that's what you meant by "share it"(?))..


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 Post subject: Re: Just one problem with animations..
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:12 am  (#7) 
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I would consider splitting the monster into sections.

This is going to get a bit off Gimp (and GAP) for animation and more to video.

GAP does use ffmpeg, but a very old version. Things change and especially ffmpeg syntax. What used to be simple is now a little more complicated but not impossible.

First ffmpeg for windows, If you go here https://ffmpeg.zeranoe.com/builds/ you can get a 64 bit static latest version. All you really need from the zip is the single file ffmpeg.exe

You can make an animated gif straight into a video
ffmpeg -r 10 -i test.gif -vcodec libxvid -vtag xvid -q:v 2 -r 30  video-from-gif.avi

syntax:-r 10 input framerate -i input gif ..... -r 30 output framerate

In a Win7 virtual machine: http://imgur.com/Gchcrqp

Interesting you tried OpenShot, I sometimes use this in linux where it works very well. The Windows version is a beta and a bit flaky but worth a try. Plenty of presets for youtube etc.

It might be worth looking at Avidemux which is well established, plenty of how-to's around. Load the first video and then keep appending further sections, just keep frame size/ frame rate the same for all. It will also add an audio track to the video. A final render to a more compressed format, say mp4 for youtube.

best of luck

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 Post subject: Re: Just one problem with animations..
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:43 am  (#8) 
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Thanks for the reply..

I think that's definitely the way to go, to split it into smaller parts.. I had an idea to do that a while ago but had no idea how to then 'bind' the parts into one whole (without the usual Gimp route,,) but you've given me some great links, any input from someone with better knowledge of the technology than me is cool, I'm still considering the OpenShot option, but having tested it out I can certainly agree with the 'flaky' description you give it.. it seems to want to do all the right things but doesn't manage to pull off the desired effect always.. still it's an option for simply stitching stuff together, definitely an option.

I'll look into the Avidemux, looks interesting.. the other link you gave me for the ffmpeg download.. is that just the bare bones for use with applications that use ffmpeg or is it a stand-alone thing?

I'll post a link to my youtube channel (only a few videos at present on it) if that's allowed.. and if you're interested to see what a novice artist (me) can do with GIMP alone.. would be nice to get feedback (any criticism favourable or otherwise is appreciated!)

Thanks again.


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 Post subject: Re: Just one problem with animations..
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:02 pm  (#9) 
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Quote:
...the other link you gave me for the ffmpeg download.. is that just the bare bones for use with applications that use ffmpeg or is it a stand-alone thing?


ffmpeg: Very much stand-alone and command line.
If you get the 64 bit static version the only file you need from the zip is in the bin folder and is ffmpeg.exe. That single file contains all the necessary libraries.

I am not too good with Windows these days but I knocked up a batch file to do the ffmpeg work on a series of numbered sequence files. Attached, remember to unzip it.

How to get layers out of Gimp in a numbered sequence? I use anitools, http://registry.gimp.org/node/25029 if you download that remove the .txt at the end and pop the anitools.py file into your plug-ins folder. There are other scripts/plugins that do the same.

I have been known to make a video demo at the drop of a hat, so here it is
https://youtu.be/tgYvvayFAuQ about 3 minutes.

best of luck


Attachments:
png2avi.bat.zip [365 Bytes]
Downloaded 21 times

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 Post subject: Re: Just one problem with animations..
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:10 pm  (#10) 
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Great stuff, checked your YouTube vid out, very clearly explained, had a look at one of your many vids and was pleasantly surprised to see you addressing a query I have had of late, and couldn't get my head round, which is the Paths tool.. finally I can understand what it's used for.. I'm not up on creative tool processes as much as I'd like but that was all very succinctly expounded upon.. I can see it's advantages now :)
I replied on your ffmpeg / png-avi video on YouTube.
All the best.


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