Source:Jehan
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/-/issues/10373

It looks like Gimp 3 isn't going to be released until April/May 2024 and when it releases there is no good reason to believe it will increase Gimp's audience and spark revival in a Gimp community like Mike Davies said once. Though it may slightly speed up Gimp development as GTK is a stable framework. I wouldn't expect the world as more and more people are moving to AI tools on smart phones and websites that auto remove backgrounds, inpaint anything, harmonize photos, deblur, denoise, and change sky textures, as indicated by alexa website rankings and youtube video views on those topics vs Gimp. Even my own text styling plugins can be replaced by things like "flaming text". And if they ever need a way to move and manipulate images technically they can just use PhotoPea in browser. Today everything is done only in a browser without installing anything; people view installing software as a downside and it looks to me like Gimp's main audience are people who prefer doing things the "old school" way and privacy advocates who don't like SaaS or anti intellectual property people via political reasons. The vast majority of people do not fall in those categories and will just use whatever works. Lastly the reason I'm most upset and venting. My layer effects engine likely won't make the cut in Gimp 3 as they freeze it Dec 2023. So yeah that's the real reason I'm upset venting at Gimp.

What do you guys think about Gimp 3's planned date for release? Hopefully its more positive then my views which are highly negative. Better late then never, or is it too late for Gimp to stand a chance against commercial software? I hold the latter opinion.

As I've been bragging on the forum here, discord and twitter that I have likely spent over a thousand hours studying GEGL and I've made 70 GEGL plugins for Gimp in 1 1/2 years (may 2022 till now making plugins) and (june 2021-now studying GEGL) and I am already convinced; maybe out of arrogance, that no one will ever beat me at developing GEGL plugins relating to text styling ever, even if Gimp's team simplifies the process in the future I remain skeptical due to the countless hours of work I put in solving difficult problems such as 1. beveling an outline separately from the text, 2. making blend mode switchers for bevels and inner glows, 3. making an inner glow plugin by inverted transparency on a drop shadow 4.Giving drop shadow a random seed.... I can go on and on about technical things I found out about GEGL. I predict in the future; 2-5 years from now, others will make GEGL based layer effects engine plugins for Gimp using dropshadow and bevels but remain skeptical that it will even come close to what I did; unless they study and use my code. Which of course they are welcome to do. I point out that only BareFootLiam and SoulessT) have co-participated in making GEGL plugins with me. Liam helped me learn a lot of things and SoulessT made two GEGL plugins back in May-June 2023 and confirmed he was not going to make any more as he said he had an interest in painting with Gimp more then plugin dev. This in my opinion shows that there is no deeply vested interest in Gimp's progress. To defend my borderline rude claim let me give an example and explain how FOSS development can be compared to gaming communities.

It is well know that gaming communities exist around niche unpopular video games released in the 80s, 90s and 2000s. These retro games have fan bases and modders of people who study and modify closed source games; via reverse engineering software and push the game to its limit via "speed running" which is beating the game as quickly as possible. I mentioned retro gaming communities because they do to legacy video games what I do to GEGL. Thousands of hours of work studying the game/GEGL Push the limit of the game/GEGL's meta and look for technical ways to perfect things in the game/GEGL. This behavior found in gaming communities does not exist at all in FOSS development. FOSS's main attitude seem to be just contribute to open source code so they can put stuff on their resume to impress a big tech company and get a six figure big tech job. All about the money, not the joy of FOSS. My goal is to bright that attitude to FOSS development.

Sorry if this post came off as rude. Its just frustrating knowing a ton of technical things about GEGL that I cannot share with anyone as they won't understand what I am talking about. You guys know all about the script fu and python stuff but if we had a conversation about the technicalities of GEGL nodes and composers you wouldn't understand what I am talking about. Now let me end this long semi controversial post by saying I love Gimp but I feel like it failed as a project. If people in STEM cared Gimp would be where it was today ten years ago. We'd have GTK3, non-destructive editing, and GEGL layer effects in 2012-2015 instead of 2022-2025. So just imagine an alternative time line where Gimp kept up with competition.

I intentionally posted this on thanksgiving to be edgy as its a day to be thankful and I'll being 'mal thankful" or better known as ungreatful. lol

Thank you for the News! We appreciate your unselfish hard work in creating the gegl plugins.

Thanks for the news.
I'm sorry, contrast, that I have not had any interest in GEGL. I find Gimp has enough in it already and I haven't learnt everything that there is to learn yet. As for AI programs I doubt everybody will go over to them. Some, like myself, still like the desired operations to be manual and get more out of it, if it is. I have noticed in the areas that I am mostly active AI doesn't do a good job at colorising photos (nearly always alot of bleed and it uses mostly the same colors all over), (sharpening images often distort the originals). Background removal I think is just plain lazy.
Anyway alot of Gimp's filters if used at their default are almost like AI

It's a coincidence you mention April/May 2024. That's when the next Ubuntu LTS is due and have a guess where most of the Gimp development happens? Mmmmm?... windows.....mac....or the free one?

Gimp release for linux on flatpacks and it's a mature graphics-designer package that's free. Who cares what the masses are doing with AI and phone apps?

Ubuntu have said they are moving to snaps more in 2024. It is still built with apt packages and it supports flatpacks, but mail and browser already use auto-updating snaps. Gimp is also a snap. So what's a snap? Its a signed AppImage. Could the linux kernel also load from an AppImage? They are fast (mostly) and it's possible they could be cross-platform eventually.

I think 2024 will be a big year for open source software.

From personal experience, I hope GIMP will still be loved by many people.
The AI software has got it's own audience.
I just hope python-fu isn't ever taken out of GIMP's release otherwise that will take away like more than half of what I use GIMP for.
I saw a youtube video that said "GIMP is Dead" a while back but I don't think that video knows what they're talking about.
On reddit.com/r/GIMP there are currently 233k redditors.
I noticed some schools and by school (I personally know at least 1 school is giving Assignments using GIMP) are teaching GIMP now.
From doing fiverr gigs for some clients.
I know for 1 client, they said publicly what I automated for them saves them 20hrs/week of tedious manual labor (That's going to be hard to replace for them I think).
For another client, a manga translator they said what I did for them saves them numerous hours of manual labor.
So I think the power of GIMP personally for me is the ability for other people who have a defined process and the possibility of automating.
That's just basically what I think. My view could be biased based on my experience.

Ok thanks guys I read all your comments and I see how many of you express doubt in AI that I do not. As the bugs AI has now will soon be solved. I'm thinking of a crazy idea to go my own way and just keep using Gimp 2.10 forever as that way I can use my plugins without worrying about things breaking left and right. Gimp 2.10 does everything I need except non-destructive editing and searchability of my plugins, and if I upgrade to Gimp 3 I'll lose resynthesizer and the rembg python plugin and a few of ofnuts tools I really depend on.

I guess we could have a future where third parties integrate AI plugins in Gimp. As currently I copy and paste clipboard data into stable diffusion and paste it back into Gimp when I need to use AI's other then REMBG. But I highly doubt Gimp's team will ever officially use AI.

The best way of understanding my complaints with Gimp is breaking it down like this.

1. GEGL is the only modern thing Gimp has but hope is still very low
If I am being technical and honest ( comparing Gimp to other software) Gimp feels like cheap low quality software from the mid 90s, with the exception of GEGL and some python live preview stuff. GEGL is modern and professional and has tons of unexplored potential. But no one takes advantage of GEGL potential but me. GEGL is Gimp's best redeeming feature. Python is the second. But this stands no chance for professionals or even casuals that are now going to AI tools.

2. Nerds don't care about fancy graphic software
Gimp's Team is not interested in graphic design like I am. They prefer photography touch ups, that explains why Gimp doesn't have Layer Effects officially. 2.1 can also be that people in STEM don't care about graphic design and much rather prefer computer science careers that are way on the other end of the industry outside their discipline. If they cared we'd have non-destructive editing in 2012 not 2025. Imagine being 13 years ahead and almost neck and neck with Adobe. Some popular Gimp youtube channels give the illusion that Gimp is neck and neck with Adobe but we know that is the case in the next complaint.

3. Gimp vs Legacy software and modern alternatives

Davies Media Design is over hyping things and giving Gimp false hope like it can make a come back or even stand a chance against Adobe or even Adobe's competitors like Photopea, paint shop pro. I see that mindset as naive and wishful. I think Davies would change his mind if he compared Gimp to commercial software of 2003 to realize Gimp loses to that. The last critique of Davies is that he tries to associate Gimp with Pexels when that project is associated with Canva and even has a "open image with Canva" Regarding what I said about "Gimp losing to software of 2003" I'll point out that paid commercial engines like GEGL existed in commercial software as far back as the 90s. So if that is the case (which it is) So why not pirate legacy photoshop from 2000s and use that with AI tools online? That would beat Gimp. for sure Though I do admit Adobe did not have the potential GEGL has today until the release of Adobe Photoshop CS3. In my most honest opinion the stuff GEGL is doing today is what Adobe was capable of doing back in 2007. If you don't believe this try using Adobe Photoshop CS3's smart objects that apply filters non-destructive with blend modes. Gimp can only do that in GEGL Graph. Adobe did that stuff in a GUI back in 2007.

4. Where's the community
There is no strong Gimp community, just isolated individuals and small groups of people on GimpChat, Reddit and Discord. Most people who use Gimp just want to do super simple things, not advance stuff like me. Davies caters to this community but eventually they will flee to AI.

5. Why am I complaining and being rude
Socially I have the right to complain about Gimp because I put 1000s of hours into studying GEGL. Also I believe in free speech so I can say whatever I want (according to Gimp Chat's discression. I have used old versions of Adobe and Paint Shop Pro and compared them to Gimp. So anything I say about Gimp's future should be taken serious. Though you are free to critic my toxic pessimism.

6. No one studys my GEGL work
My thousands of hours studying GEGL has resulted in "cake text" "gold text" and a layer effects engine that does more then legacy Adobe and any python and script fu stuff. No one is studying this stuff. If I wander off from Gimp and get a real life (yeah I don't have one currently, LOL) I will probably not maintain my filters and if they break in the future. So its up to you guys to keep my GEGL legacy going.

contrast_ - Your GEGL plug-ins are quite useful, but they're far from the only thing people use GIMP for. It's totally fine if people focus on other aspects of the software and don't want to make plug-ins.

I think the idea of "competing" is silly - it's not like GIMP wins anything if more people use it than Photoshop. Thousands of people have used GIMP over the years to complete projects, both simple and advanced. As long as they find it helpful, they'll keep using it. And if they find other software that better meets their needs, that's great too! There's plenty of room for improvement in GIMP, but that doesn't stop it from being very useful software right now.

Anyway, we're both welcome to our opinions. I think there's a lot of good stuff is coming in GIMP 3.0, and I'm looking forward to it.

Fair point and nice to see you here. Thank you for all the contributions you made to Gimp. The non-destructive editing show off made me happy.

I should have named this thread my pessimism about Gimp. It was a vent thread I don't usually go off like this.

So long as G'MIC, Mathmap, PSPI, and Resynthesizer works within 3.0, I'm game, otherwise, I'll be sticking with 2.10.34 rev. 2 (I know there's a newer version, but with all the bad publicity when it was initially released, I have decided not to update; lol).

edit:

OK; just downloaded and isntalled 2.10.36 (got tired of the nag every time I launched GIMP anyway). So far everything works fine.

@ Contrast

4. Where's the community?
Before our Founder got ill and sold this website to (non user/rarely see) Omega, this site was very active.
So much so, that even the Founder was here all the time and many others - ask Lyle, he was here early on.

5. Why am I complaining and being rude
Sorry again about not taking in much interest in GEGL stuff that you have spent 1000's of hours on. Many others, dinasset for example have created lots of things for people to use and don't get much interest all the time either. I have a couple of them but my computer cant take too many 'extras'

I use AI and am impressed with the results but I will never flee to it because I ultimately want control over my work. I have never yet got precisely what I am looking for using AI. It's fun, but it's not art. Art ultimately always involves a human being.

I have never understood how to use GEGL fully. It is supposed to be non-destructive editing? So how does one recall a GEGL filter that has been used on an image previously in order to adjust it? I might be more interested in it if I knew how to use it properly. Krita uses filter layers, similar to PS adjustment layers and it is far more intuitive for non-destructive editing.

contrast_ No worries - it's fine to vent! There's a lot of things I'd like to be in GIMP as well. What's been really interesting as a contributer is seeing all the ways people use GIMP that I never would have thought of - there's so many different work flows.

Erisian GEGL itself is non-destructive, but GIMP doesn't fully expose that feature of it. There actually is a good foundation in place by the developers. My account's too new to post a direct link yet, but if you go to Fosstodon and visit my page (same user name), you'll see some videos demoing it.
There's still a chance that initial non-destructive editing will make it into GIMP 2.99.18 and 3.0; finger's crossed!

How do you get to it?

sallyanne My account's still too new to post a direct link, but let me try this.

You would want to visit Fosstodon., which is a FLOSS social media org. My username there is /@cmykstudent, and a post ID with non-destructive editing would be /111528050889739302

If you put all the bolded parts together, it should give you a URL.

Like this?
https://fosstodon.org/@cmykstudent/111528050889739302

nelo: Exactly, thanks! I need to record a new video actually, the UI is a bit different now. Another really cool feature is that you can apply a filter to a text layer and then keep typing - the filter will update as you write.

yeah I seen that, Liam showed me it. But it still has a problem as users need to run "layer to image size" first.


btw I plan on compiling that version of Gimp and testing it myself.