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 Post subject: Crowdfunding Proposal for Symmetry/Mirror Painting in GIMP
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:50 am  (#1) 
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symmetry mirror painting in gimp


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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunding Proposal for Symmetry/Mirror Painting in GIMP
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:18 pm  (#2) 
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no thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunding Proposal for Symmetry/Mirror Painting in GIMP
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:23 am  (#3) 
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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunding Proposal for Symmetry/Mirror Painting in GIMP
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:38 am  (#4) 
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Apart from the feature itself, it raises some questions about the choice for the crowfunding :

- The feature already seems to work reasonably. The author says it is a just hack that needs to be reworked, and this will take time to polish.
But if he has no time, why not just sharing the actual code he has already done, maybe someone else will have the time to do the necessary cleanup.
- How did he determined the amount of money he needs to finalize the work ? Looks a bit like a random value to me !

I'm quite interested by the result of this crowfunding by the way. Maybe this way of financing open source projects is better than having a 'Donate' button
on the project webpage ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunding Proposal for Symmetry/Mirror Painting in GIMP
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:31 am  (#5) 
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I'd like to ask GC painters if mirror painting is such a needed tool?
And if yes, what are the usability cases? Would you use it to draw a face, perhaps, nature elements,
which are hardly symmetrical in real life?

3D artists use mirror mod for character/creature sculpting (Blender, Sculptris, ZBrush) just to speed up the process,
but it's different from drawing, because in the end they'd usually change the geometry to make sure
it does not look symmetrical [well, limbs can be left symmetrical because they are to be rigged/animated anyway].

I just wish the GIMP core developers had their gimp priorities right.
First get the gimp a better brush engine so it won't choke on big brush size.
Want to impress gimp end users - make multicolor brush and/or color replacement brush.
How about developing an analogue of PS's mixer brush tool. More useful in my opinion than mirror painting.


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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunding Proposal for Symmetry/Mirror Painting in GIMP
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:54 am  (#6) 
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K1TesseraEna wrote:
[font=Tahoma]I'd like to ask GC painters if mirror painting is such a needed tool?
And if yes, what are the usability cases? Would you use it to draw a face, perhaps, nature elements,
which are hardly symmetrical in real life?

3D artists use mirror mod for character/creature sculpting (Blender, Sculptris, ZBrush) just to speed up the process,
but it's different from drawing, because in the end they'd usually change the geometry to make sure
it does not look symmetrical [well, limbs can be left symmetrical because they are to be rigged/animated anyway].


There was a time when I might have found this useful but not necessary. As in your 3D example, the symmetry wold have to be distorted afterwards. It doesn't take a lot of time to duplicate a layer and flip it though. I don't think this is worth the work or the money to be honest, unless there is something I'm missing.


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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunding Proposal for Symmetry/Mirror Painting in GIMP
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:20 am  (#7) 
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K1TesseraEna wrote:
I just wish the GIMP core developers had their gimp priorities right.


But you're implying there is a "management group" of core developers, which isn't the case. There are a collection of individuals, all contributing to an unmanaged greater whole. (That lack of project management is a whole other subject for discussion)

In this case, one solo developer, who just happens to have contributed to GIMP in the past, will work on his idea for a feature in the hope that it will be incorporated into the GIMP core. He has not been pointed to this task by anyone other than himself.

Personally I think it's the wrong task to be working on and it's a distraction from the huge amount of work remaining to get 2.10 ready.

Obviously as a photography user of GIMP, I think painting tools are less important than high bit depth and non destructive editing :) and that illustrates one of the problems, in that GIMP is trying to be all things to all men (again a separate subject for discussion).

Kevin


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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunding Proposal for Symmetry/Mirror Painting in GIMP
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:35 am  (#8) 
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I would rather have a way to paint that wraps across borders so that creating seamless textures would be child's play. Include cloning brush in this mix too. Might be worth a crowd funding project. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunding Proposal for Symmetry/Mirror Painting in GIMP
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:04 am  (#9) 
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Hello.
Here is an example in Krita from Ramón Miranda about how "MultiBrush" feature can be useful for symmetrical painting:
www.youtube.com Video from : www.youtube.com


In Krita you not only can use mirror mode, you can use a brush number greater than two, and is very fun to play with it :)

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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunding Proposal for Symmetry/Mirror Painting in GIMP
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:28 am  (#10) 
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paynekj wrote:
K1TesseraEna wrote:
I just wish the GIMP core developers had their gimp priorities right.


But you're implying there is a "management group" of core developers, which isn't the case. There are a collection of individuals, all contributing to an unmanaged greater whole. (That lack of project management is a whole other subject for discussion)

In this case, one solo developer, who just happens to have contributed to GIMP in the past, will work on his idea for a feature in the hope that it will be incorporated into the GIMP core. He has not been pointed to this task by anyone other than himself.

Personally I think it's the wrong task to be working on and it's a distraction from the huge amount of work remaining to get 2.10 ready.

Obviously as a photography user of GIMP, I think painting tools are less important than high bit depth and non destructive editing :) and that illustrates one of the problems, in that GIMP is trying to be all things to all men (again a separate subject for discussion).

Kevin



GIMP project is being coordinated and managed by a group of
individuals who took over project some 6 years ago and now call the shots. The times of
democracy and brownian motion in the gimp history are long gone.

'One solo developer' calls himself a core developer. Quote 'I am a capable developer, with an experience track (see below), part of GIMP’s core team. '

You said: 'Personally I think it's the wrong task to be working on and it's a distraction from the huge amount of work remaining to get 2.10 ready.'

That I totally agree with. :bigthup


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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunding Proposal for Symmetry/Mirror Painting in GIMP
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:04 am  (#11) 
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what mean's "GIMP"? - GNU Image Manipulation Program
GIMP was'nt and is'nt a painting software, there are program's out there they do a better job for this
i see no need to inflate the program code with that, could be a plugin but not more
keep it small - keep it simple


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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunding Proposal for Symmetry/Mirror Painting in GIMP
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:38 pm  (#12) 
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silk wrote:
what mean's "GIMP"? - GNU Image Manipulation Program
GIMP was'nt and is'nt a painting software, there are program's out there they do a better job for this
i see no need to inflate the program code with that, could be a plugin but not more
keep it small - keep it simple


Strongly disagree. GIMP is as much of a computer graphics software today as it is and ever was photo-retouching editor.
Following this logic Photoshop too should resort to photo-manipulations only.
Names contrived decades ago mean nothing today. Both GIMP and PS are very capable painting tools.


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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunding Proposal for Symmetry/Mirror Painting in GIMP
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:55 pm  (#13) 
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Mirror painting is a needed tool, but not a must. Some abstract artist seems like it... :hehe
But I agree Gimp need better brush engine, brush in 2.8 is so slow so I switch back to 2.6. :mrgreen:
And Gimp 2.10 is still one century to be released... :hehe :hehe

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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunding Proposal for Symmetry/Mirror Painting in GIMP
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:03 pm  (#14) 
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And if you notice, it seems GimP developer not really working together with artists (which the feature made for).

Krita, for example has David Revoy and Ramon Miranda that working together with the developer, but not Gimp... And Gimp team ignored GimPainter too... :(

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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunding Proposal for Symmetry/Mirror Painting in GIMP
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:22 pm  (#15) 
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K1TesseraEna wrote:
silk wrote:
what mean's "GIMP"? - GNU Image Manipulation Program
GIMP was'nt and is'nt a painting software, there are program's out there they do a better job for this
i see no need to inflate the program code with that, could be a plugin but not more
keep it small - keep it simple


Strongly disagree. GIMP is as much of a computer graphics software today as it is and ever was photo-retouching editor.
Following this logic Photoshop too should resort to photo-manipulations only.
Names contrived decades ago mean nothing today. Both GIMP and PS are very capable painting tools.

I totally agree and I don't agree that there is software more capable for painting. The problem with such software is that it tries too hard to emulate traditional media instead of taking advantage of the strengths of digital. If I want to do a watercolour, I will use watercolours not oils or acrylics, so why should I use digital for such. Gimp and PS are both incredible digital painting tools.


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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunding Proposal for Symmetry/Mirror Painting in GIMP
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:07 am  (#16) 
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Zeo wrote:
Mirror painting is a needed tool


No,
a generally speed improvement of GIMP is needed
non-destructive editing is needed
adjustment layers are needed

for that i would give some money but not for symmetry painting (duplicate and flip the layer and it's done)
nothing is so boring like symmetry


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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunding Proposal for Symmetry/Mirror Painting in GIMP
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:17 am  (#17) 
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Great, i hope the crowdfunding will go well, symmetry is a good feature to have in any image manipulation and painting software.
There have been occurances in my textures work in which a "live" symmetry would have speed up the process nicely.

Fortunately with G'MIC current "Symmetrise" function and its customisable symmetry center and orientation, even if it's not real time unfortunately, it still makes things a lot better and faster than before in which you had to mirror in a rather clunky way.

Good luck with the crowdfunding


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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunding Proposal for Symmetry/Mirror Painting in GIMP
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:24 pm  (#18) 
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i would never use it. and i use my gimp to paint with. doesn't take very long to copy a layer and just flip it. just saying... :hehe :hehe :hehe

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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunding Proposal for Symmetry/Mirror Painting in GIMP
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:08 pm  (#19) 
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I agree... too many things I would want more than that. I would like to have the what is supposed to be our warp tool but the superior one in photoshop. The name of the tool is Liquify and that is what would be first on my wish list.

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 Post subject: Re: Crowdfunding Proposal for Symmetry/Mirror Painting in GIMP
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:24 pm  (#20) 
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lylejk wrote:
I would rather have a way to paint that wraps across borders so that creating seamless textures would be child's play. Include cloning brush in this mix too. Might be worth a crowd funding project. :)


Never tried that one?: http://gimpchat.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7825&start=0

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