It is currently Fri Jul 26, 2024 5:20 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: GIMP: Roadmap To The Future
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:54 am  (#1) 
Offline
GimpChat Founder
User avatar

Joined: May 22, 2008
Posts: 5242
Location: Gimpville
Taking a look at the GIMP Roadmap, there are a lot of nice enhancements being planned.

I'm wondering what others think of the planned updates and how these changes might affect the way we use GIMP.

Also, with many apps/developers abandoning GTK, in favor of QT, how will that affect GIMP, going forward?

_________________
“If you reach for the stars, you just might land on a decently sized hill.” - Stuart Hill


Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Orkut Share on Digg Share on MySpace Share on Delicious Share on Technorati
Top
 Post subject: Re: GIMP: Roadmap To The Future
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:07 am  (#2) 
Offline
GimpChat Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 09, 2011
Posts: 726
I have not read any plan to change GTK by Qt, unfortunately. As a KDE user GIMP ported to Qt would be great!

Here you can see a theme/icons candidate for GIMP gtk3 branch. The icons will be used for Inkscape too:
https://plus.google.com/105956747281909 ... nPRZ915G8t

_________________
Image
Be patient, English is not my language.


Top
 Post subject: Re: GIMP: Roadmap To The Future
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:15 pm  (#3) 
Offline
GimpChat Member
User avatar

Joined: Mar 23, 2012
Posts: 7316
Location: Göteborg at last!
Interesting. The inclusion of mypaint brushes, a warp tool and non destructive editing will certainly keep me quiet. Just a vanishing point tool like Photoshop's and Gimp will be complete for painters as far as I am concerned. I wonder what they mean by 100% complete. Is any tool ever really 100% complete. There are always potential improvements but after all my concerns about Gimp development, they have given painters the best deal by far here and I will be so pleased if they achieve this!


Top
 Post subject: Re: GIMP: Roadmap To The Future
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:36 pm  (#4) 
Offline
GimpChat Member

Joined: Aug 15, 2013
Posts: 125
I really want the unified transform tool to replace the current scale, rotate and perspective tools. For me that's the biggest advantage of Photoshop over GIMP in terms of time savings. That said, I've been doing all my usual photoshop stuff in GIMP, which includes hundreds of photo edits, a few magazine ads, website design, and my first professional modeling shots. <3 GIMP £>


Top
 Post subject: Re: GIMP: Roadmap To The Future
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:54 pm  (#5) 
Offline
GimpChat Member
User avatar

Joined: Mar 23, 2012
Posts: 7316
Location: Göteborg at last!
I think the unified transform tool is a great idea too. I did forget to mention that I would like to see either a return to the old style sliders or an improvement on the present ones making them easier to get hold of.


Top
 Post subject: Re: GIMP: Roadmap To The Future
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:43 pm  (#6) 
Offline
GimpChat Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2012
Posts: 2089
Location: US
GnuTux wrote:
Also, with many apps/developers abandoning GTK, in favor of QT, how will that affect GIMP, going forward?


I think Qt would be great and allow GIMP a much better API/UI.
But I don't think GIMP will abandon GTK in the near future.
Switching to Qt will require C++ or M$ VS (not likely by definition) while GIMP is written mostly in C.
I see why other apps would do that, but GTK (gimp tool kit) was developed from GIMP.
BTW, GTK 3 is not a bad library. It's GIMP still using GTK 2 isn't good.


Top
 Post subject: Re: GIMP: Roadmap To The Future
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:54 pm  (#7) 
Offline
GimpChat Member

Joined: Aug 27, 2010
Posts: 491
Quote:
Preview filter effects on canvas instead of in preview window


Such a simple and yet such a useful function.


Top
 Post subject: Re: GIMP: Roadmap To The Future
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:00 pm  (#8) 
Offline
GimpChat Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2012
Posts: 2089
Location: US
Mike wrote:
Quote:
Preview filter effects on canvas instead of in preview window


Such a simple and yet such a useful function.


Well, it takes GEGL. Actually, not that simple (porting gimp to GEGL is), but very useful - yes.


Top
 Post subject: Re: GIMP: Roadmap To The Future
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:04 am  (#9) 
Offline
GimpChat Member
User avatar

Joined: Aug 16, 2012
Posts: 4271
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
i think it sounds good with the changes planned, layer masks on layer groups sounds like something i could really use and so does the on-canvas iwarp tool. but i wish the improved text handling had been prioritised - after a year of trying out new and fun text effects i'm getting a bit annoyed with some parts of the gimp text tool, for example that really silly bug that cuts off parts of the text when you use bold text. i also wish there had been some work on the brush engine planned, because now that i own a graphics tablet i can see exactly what erisian has been complaining about with 2.8 (and i really like 2.8 otherwise,despite having some problem with the sliders).

some of the things that are being worked on seem a bit unnecessary to me - like layer effects. seems too much like trying to imitate photo shop instead of finding a way for gimp to develop in its own direction. won't it slow down gimp's own unique development if the focus is on getting everything that photoshop already has?

i want to know what exactly is meant by "better support for image metadata" - anyone who can explain?

_________________


Top
 Post subject: Re: GIMP: Roadmap To The Future
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:24 am  (#10) 
Offline
GimpChat Founder
User avatar

Joined: May 22, 2008
Posts: 5242
Location: Gimpville
@AnMal - I believe they are planing better support for meta data such as EXIF, ICC and other relevant info about a given image.

@K1TesseraEna - I was just concerned that with the growing popularity of QT, developers will increasingly abandon GTK, leaving GIMP and GTK driven applications with smaller pool of developers. Considering the direction of GNOME, I'm hoping we don't see the same mindset and direction from those who make the decisions regarding the UI and future "look and feel" of GIMP.

_________________
“If you reach for the stars, you just might land on a decently sized hill.” - Stuart Hill


Top
 Post subject: Re: GIMP: Roadmap To The Future
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:26 am  (#11) 
Offline
GimpChat Member

Joined: Apr 12, 2010
Posts: 5870
Mike wrote:
Quote:
Preview filter effects on canvas instead of in preview window


Here i must disagree :
A OPTION allowing "live preview on canvas" would be a great improvement, but REPLACE the default preview with a live preview
may be a PITA :

You may check why even now , using Gegl Operations, on canvas preview sucks much more resources , require more powerful computers and even then (i have 8GB Ram ) may freeze gimp for quite long
How long depend on filter used , settings and image size , as example the canvas preview of Gegl>c2g applied to a photo ( converted to 8bit but not scaled down ) could literally take HOURS . ... (and then most will think Gimp crashed ,also because at least on win will appear a message about "gimp not responding" , even if is only busy to try to render the preview)

In few words would be a cool additional option but may be a disaster as replacement

_________________
My 3D Gallery on Deviantart http://photocomix2.deviantart.com/
Main gallery http://www.flickriver.com/photos/photocomix-mandala/
Mandala and simmetry http://www.flickriver.com/photos/photocomix_mandala/

Image

Mrs Wilbress


Top
 Post subject: Re: GIMP: Roadmap To The Future
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:27 pm  (#12) 
Offline
GimpChat Member

Joined: Apr 29, 2012
Posts: 110
It's so incredibly slow to build those GEGL operations previews that i hope those are not really giving a taste of what to expect from the full "on canvas preview" of Gimp future.

I thought the move to GEGL the Gimp undertook was supposed to boost its performance, so i'm wondering why is it that slow ?
I mean take by example the Cartoon GEGL operation and start to tweak the value while looking at how much time it takes for the on canvas preview to generate itself.

Then do the same with the Cartoon filter and see how very fast the changes are generated on its own preview window, or take GMIC own Cartoon operation, that has even more controls and has its own preview too and while a bit slower than the Gimp filter, see how much faster it still is than the GEGL operation .


Top
 Post subject: Re: GIMP: Roadmap To The Future
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:04 pm  (#13) 
Offline
GimpChat Member

Joined: Apr 12, 2010
Posts: 5870
Quote:
I thought the move to GEGL the Gimp undertook was supposed to boost its performance, so i'm wondering why is it that slow ?


As i wrote i too believe that the preview on canvas can not be a replacement for normal preview , because so slow

BUT on the other hand you should consider that apply a perfect preview on canvas take exactly same calculation then render the filter.

In my example is true that C2G preview on canvas may took ages, but is also true that after the preview , you will not have to wait for the filter to render

in other words as example now "X" filter normal preview require 5 seconds,but apply the filter 1 minute
On canvas preview instead will require 1 minute , but after that no waiting time for its application ... in theory even 5 seconds quicker!

Alas not in practice because the function of the preview is mainly that to quickly show the effect of different settings to allow to chose the best , maybe even at 100% zoom but allowing to chose only a little area to make preview faster
while "preview on canvas" seems no much better, as time needed , then blindly apply filter without preview and then undo if not happy, try again and so on , and on

_________________
My 3D Gallery on Deviantart http://photocomix2.deviantart.com/
Main gallery http://www.flickriver.com/photos/photocomix-mandala/
Mandala and simmetry http://www.flickriver.com/photos/photocomix_mandala/

Image

Mrs Wilbress


Top
 Post subject: Re: GIMP: Roadmap To The Future
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:56 pm  (#14) 
Offline
GimpChat Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2012
Posts: 2089
Location: US
GnuTux wrote:
@K1TesseraEna - I was just concerned that with the growing popularity of QT, developers will increasingly abandon GTK, leaving GIMP and GTK driven applications with smaller pool of developers. Considering the direction of GNOME, I'm hoping we don't see the same mindset and direction from those who make the decisions regarding the UI and future "look and feel" of GIMP.


I think Peter Sikking, one of the main GIMP architects, can answer this.
As much as the GIMP core team wants to improve UI they want to do it with minimal code intervention.
And Qt will require the whole gimp core to be re-written.

@Brogun, PC - On canvas previews wasn't the main idea behind switching to GEGL.
New gimp engine brings tons of improvements to the overall performance. Linear color
transformation alone makes it worth the effort. Finally, we'll get correct blending modes
and color depth beyond 8 bits per channel.

I wouldn't judge GEGL based on current Gegl Ops speed. In the future GEGL will be using OpenCL
graphics accelerator, real-time display and render times will be reduced dramatically.
Yes, all these changes lead to a more powerful image editing tool, which in turn will require more
powerful computers.


Top
 Post subject: Re: GIMP: Roadmap To The Future
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:09 pm  (#15) 
Offline
GimpChat Member

Joined: Apr 12, 2010
Posts: 5870
Quote:
On canvas previews wasn't the main idea behind switching to GEGL.


Yes i know , and again i found useful a additional option for on canvas preview but i think can't be a replacement of usual preview , not as is now

Maybe just something as a " mark the preview zone" button added to the gegl filter gui would solve :

If you click it ,as soon you click it , you may mark (i.e.with the rectangular selector)on the canvas a limited area to preview , without modifying the selection

_________________
My 3D Gallery on Deviantart http://photocomix2.deviantart.com/
Main gallery http://www.flickriver.com/photos/photocomix-mandala/
Mandala and simmetry http://www.flickriver.com/photos/photocomix_mandala/

Image

Mrs Wilbress


Top
 Post subject: Re: GIMP: Roadmap To The Future
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:22 pm  (#16) 
Offline
GimpChat Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2012
Posts: 2089
Location: US
PhotoComix wrote:
Quote:
On canvas previews wasn't the main idea behind switching to GEGL.


Yes i know , and again i found useful a additional option for on canvas preview but i think can't be a replacement of usual preview , not as is now

Maybe just something as a " mark the preview zone" button added to the gegl filter gui would solve :

If you click it ,as soon you click it , you may mark (i.e.with the rectangular selector)on the canvas a limited area to preview , without modifying the selection


I see what you're saying. I don't think with all-gegl GIMP 2.10 or even 3.0 all
filters will automatically have on canvas previews. It did not happen even in Photoshop CS6-CC,
which is using C++ and more flexible and fast VisualStudio library along with Adobe's own.
Some of PS filters are still using gadgets with preview window. I figure, it's done for a reason.


Top
 Post subject: Re: GIMP: Roadmap To The Future
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:14 pm  (#17) 
Offline
GimpChat Member

Joined: Apr 12, 2010
Posts: 5870
K1TesseraEna wrote:
Some of PS filters are still using gadget with preview window. I figure, it's done for a reason.


I believe that a (decent) preview window has 2 advantages :
1) allow to confront before/after face to face
2) allow to preview only a limited zone

but i believe the concept of on canvas preview may be easily polished to allow the same if and when required :
i already wrote about 2)
for 1,to confront the before/after face to face, a " preview to new buffer" box , to allow the display the preview somewhere else could help

_________________
My 3D Gallery on Deviantart http://photocomix2.deviantart.com/
Main gallery http://www.flickriver.com/photos/photocomix-mandala/
Mandala and simmetry http://www.flickriver.com/photos/photocomix_mandala/

Image

Mrs Wilbress


Top
 Post subject: Re: GIMP: Roadmap To The Future
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:31 pm  (#18) 
Offline
GimpChat Founder
User avatar

Joined: May 22, 2008
Posts: 5242
Location: Gimpville
Ran across an interesting article that I thought was worth sharing here.

Nathan Willis via lwn.net wrote:
Finally, he said, people ask whether GTK+ is focused on creating "small apps" or "large applications," and his answer is "small apps." In other words, GTK+ widgets are designed to make it easy and fast to write small apps for GNOME: apps like Clocks, rather than GIMP or Inkscape. The reality of it is, he said, that large applications like GIMP, Inkscape, Firefox, and LibreOffice typically write large amounts of custom widgets to suit their particular needs. If GTK+ tried to write a "docking toolbar" widget, the odds are that GIMP developers would complain that it did not meet their needs, Inkscape developers would complain that it did not meet their needs either, and no one else would use it at all.

An audience member asked what Otte's definitions of "small" and "large" are, to which he replied that it is obviously a spectrum and not a bright line. As a general rule, he said, if the most time-consuming part of porting an application to a different platform is porting all of the dialog boxes, then it probably qualifies as "large." Full Article

_________________
“If you reach for the stars, you just might land on a decently sized hill.” - Stuart Hill


Top
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


   Similar Topics   Replies 
No new posts Attachment(s) Please preserve GIMP 2.10 on Linux for the future

2

No new posts Attachment(s) "Look to the future" (???)

2


cron

* Login  



Powered by phpBB3 © phpBB Group