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 Post subject: Help Wanted.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:32 am  (#1) 
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This one is destined to be a competition entry in Dark Art Challenges at DeviantArt. I'm hoping to get some thoughts and suggestions on how it can be made better, stuff to do with the lighting and general composition of the picture. I've been working on it for a couple of weeks now and I'm all tapped out of ideas so all honest opinions and comments, good or bad, are welcome.
Cheers.

Here's a link to a bigger image. http://fav.me/d5zs1ro

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 Post subject: Re: Help Wanted.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 7:39 am  (#2) 
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Caz...I think your dark art is excellent. I really like it. I like the way the man's head and beard are back lit by the fire. The only thing I would suggest is the part hanging down from the beast on the right side could also have a few bits and pieces of reflected firelight. very good

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 Post subject: Re: Help Wanted.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:16 am  (#3) 
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I agree with molly, this is a great piece! Maybe a little (subltle) fog/smoke/magical wisps to guide viewers eye?


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 Post subject: Re: Help Wanted.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:11 am  (#4) 
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Caz wrote:
Image

This one is destined to be a competition entry in Dark Art Challenges at DeviantArt. I'm hoping to get some thoughts and suggestions on how it can be made better, stuff to do with the lighting and general composition of the picture. I've been working on it for a couple of weeks now and I'm all tapped out of ideas so all honest opinions and comments, good or bad, are welcome.
Cheers.

Here's a link to a bigger image. http://fav.me/d5zs1ro


@Caz,

Here are just a few of my observations...

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 Post subject: Re: Help Wanted.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:42 pm  (#5) 
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Good work :)

Commented on DA.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Wanted.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:04 pm  (#6) 
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also, if the fire is behind the wizard, shouldnt his back be lighted and without shadows ?


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 Post subject: Re: Help Wanted.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:25 pm  (#7) 
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Thank you everyone for all the comments, they're really appreciated and a great help. :cool
I will have to see if I can get some of the firelight to reflect of the rocks below the Gargoyle and add some magic smoke/dust to the scene. Two good ideas there that will make a real difference.

Wallace, you are very observant. I totally missed the anomalies on the gargoyle - part of a different layer that hadn't been completely erased- and the small section of sky. I will dot a few stars in and see what I can do about the edge to the cave entrance, there is still some glare there from the original cave picture which was taken in bright sunlight.
The thing about the shadow on the wizard is that I'm not sure which way it should go. The moon light makes me think it should be behind the wizard but then the light from the fire suggest to me that it should be in front of him. Bit confusing this one so I'm open to suggest on how the shadow should fall?

Lots of work still to do on this one, which proves why it's so important to ask the opinions of others.
Cheers.

Edit: esper, you're right about the the wizard's cloak, it should be bright all the way down due to the firelight. I've tried to change it but am not having a lot of success so far. More experiments needed.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Wanted.
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:14 pm  (#8) 
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Esper wrote:
also, if the fire is behind the wizard, shouldnt his back be lighted and without shadows ?


@Esper,

I feel that the man in the image should cast a shadow.

Have you ever made 'shadow puppets'?
The light is behind your hand, therefor the shadow is in front of your hand which produces the shadow puppet.
Shadows will always be in the opposite direction from the light sources. ie... Light behind, shadow in front. light in front, shadow behind and so forth. Also the closer the light source the larger is the shadow.

Unless your intentionally creating a fantasy world that breaks the rules of light and shadow, a shadow should be cast using a reasonably placed imaginary light source based on reality. In this case we have a light source, the fire.

Light sources that shine down almost from directly above tend to create shorter shadows. Lights more to the side of an object make longer shadows. A bright beam creates a more pronounced shadow while low light or diffused lighting results in softer shadows.

This is only very basic 'light and shadow principles' and merely the tip of the iceberg, so to speak.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Wanted.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:59 pm  (#9) 
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This is the updated version and is now entered into the Dark Art Challenge at DeviantArt. I've added some stars and tried to give a fire glow to the inside of the cave. Also I've removed all of the shrapnel that was left over from earlier layers.
I tried to add some of the magic smoke but couldn't come up with anything that looked right so settled for a vortex type effect around the wizard's wand, and as to lightening his cloak, it's a none starter for me. Whatever I try looks a bit of a mess so I've decided to call it a day on that one.
Thanks for all the help with this, it's made a real difference.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Wanted.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:26 pm  (#10) 
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Caz, I think it is excellent. I hope you win.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Wanted.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:51 pm  (#11) 
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Caz wrote:
This is the updated version and is now entered into the Dark Art Challenge at DeviantArt. I've added some stars and tried to give a fire glow to the inside of the cave. Also I've removed all of the shrapnel that was left over from earlier layers.
I tried to add some of the magic smoke but couldn't come up with anything that looked right so settled for a vortex type effect around the wizard's wand, and as to lightening his cloak, it's a none starter for me. Whatever I try looks a bit of a mess so I've decided to call it a day on that one.
Thanks for all the help with this, it's made a real difference.


If viewed in it's full size, I can still pick out some anomalies. One very small 'red' spot near the beasts leg and a line going through the wizards hair.
Nonetheless these miniscule anomalies may be over looked by most that view the image.

I wish you the best in the contest. :bigthup Also if I could... I'd like to give your image a vote if this is possible. ;)

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Last edited by Wallace on Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Wanted.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:20 pm  (#12) 
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me too

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 Post subject: Re: Help Wanted.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:47 pm  (#13) 
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caz: i noticed that red spot on the beast too, red is such an attention-grabber! i also think it's a bit annoying that the vortext effect around the wand makes such a sharp edged rectangle. the colouring on the beast looks a bit too cold compared to the wizard, since they're both in the same environment they could be more similar in colour temperature - but that could be one of those details like the wizard's back, it will be a good picture with or without changing that and changing it may very well give you another mess.
apart from that i think the composition is coming out real nice, i like the mystique of it. good luck with the contest!

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 Post subject: Re: Help Wanted.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:48 am  (#14) 
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Excellent work - I love it. I think some of the ground around the fire should be lit with orange light and the wizard's back as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Wanted.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:27 pm  (#15) 
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Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the comments :)
I found the red spot on the gargoyle's leg, no matter how much time I spend looking at the image I still manage to miss things, and the line on the Wizard's hair. Not sure what's caused that one, it must've been something I was experimenting with and now can't seem to get rid off.
I'm not sure if I can still make changes to the image now that it's been entered so I'll have to ask about that one.
The voting is by a single judge, but thanks so much for offering to put votes my way. :cool
I've had one first and one second place in this competition since I started taking part about six or seven months ago, nothing for a while now though. The art work from the opposition is good and mostly done using photoshop, I think I'm the only Gimp user there, so here's hoping Wilber takes the victory this time.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Wanted.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:35 pm  (#16) 
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Caz wrote:
Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the comments :)
I found the red spot on the gargoyle's leg, no matter how much time I spend looking at the image I still manage to miss things, and the line on the Wizard's hair. Not sure what's caused that one, it must've been something I was experimenting with and now can't seem to get rid off.
I'm not sure if I can still make changes to the image now that it's been entered so I'll have to ask about that one.
The voting is by a single judge, but thanks so much for offering to put votes my way. :cool
I've had one first and one second place in this competition since I started taking part about six or seven months ago, nothing for a while now though. The art work from the opposition is good and mostly done using photoshop, I think I'm the only Gimp user there, so here's hoping Wilber takes the victory this time.


@ Caz,

I hope you do win, if not for yourself then for us dedicated Gimp users. :yes

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 Post subject: Re: Help Wanted.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:02 am  (#17) 
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Just as an update, this picture received an honourable mention in the level two category, which basically made it the runner up. There were six other entries so I'm well pleased with the result, and I get a prize as well.
There's one in the bag for Wilber.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Wanted.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:13 am  (#18) 
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love the work, and the friendly crit, the finished product looks good


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 Post subject: Re: Help Wanted.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:46 pm  (#19) 
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Caz wrote:
Just as an update, this picture received an honourable mention in the level two category, which basically made it the runner up. There were six other entries so I'm well pleased with the result, and I get a prize as well.
There's one in the bag for Wilber.


@Caz

:ninja :bigthup

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