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 Post subject: Layer group problem.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:19 pm  (#1) 
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GIMP Version: 2.8.10
Operating System: Linux
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List any relevant plug-ins or scripts:
Script-fu
Layer effects
Outer glow




It's not actually a problem as such, just slightly annoying.
I've started a new layer group for layers which have a stroked path on each one, there will be 20 to 30 of these layers in the group. Each layer also has to have an outer glow added to it but each one of the outer glow layers is added outside of the group. Not a massive problem as I can just drag the outer glow layers into the group so that I can keep things tidy, but I would like all the layers to remain in the group when they are created. I'm not sure if this is possible but I thought I'd ask just in case there is a way to do it.

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 Post subject: Re: Layer group problem.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:33 pm  (#2) 
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How do you add the outer glow?

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 Post subject: Re: Layer group problem.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:06 pm  (#3) 
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to my knowledge you cant
the layerfx that makes use of layergroups wasnt a very good idea, thats why i got back to the previous version

why dont you do it all by hand ?
duplicate the layer, lock the alpha channel, drag color over it, unlock alpha channel, gaussian blur


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 Post subject: Re: Layer group problem.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:57 pm  (#4) 
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@Esper I think Caz is using script-fu version of layerfx (in OP description) which also doesn't support layer groups.

@Caz Create your layers as ungrouped, add outer glow and after you're done editing link the layers and run this script - Layers>Group>Pack Linked Layers.
This script is one of the utility tools that come with Animstack script - find them in Bonus features description.
Although you may never need animation script itself, these utility scripts are very useful.


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 Post subject: Re: Layer group problem.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:54 pm  (#5) 
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Caz wrote:
Each layer also has to have an outer glow added to it

I would like all the layers to remain in the group when they are created. I'm not sure if this is possible but I thought I'd ask just in case there is a way to do it.

Greetings,

GC Shadow supports Layer Groups in GIMP 2.8.x, while maintaining compatibility with GIMP 2.6.x.

http://gimpscripts.com/2013/05/gc-shadow/

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 Post subject: Re: Layer group problem.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:50 am  (#6) 
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ofnuts wrote:
How do you add the outer glow?


I'm using the outer glow that comes with the script-fu layer effects. I've since noticed that none of the layer effects options will add the new layer into a group, even if I select the merge layer option the new layer is added outside of the group rather than merged with the existing grouped layer. Ho hum one of those things.

Esper wrote:
to my knowledge you cant
the layerfx that makes use of layergroups wasnt a very good idea, thats why i got back to the previous version

why dont you do it all by hand ?
duplicate the layer, lock the alpha channel, drag color over it, unlock alpha channel, gaussian blur


I could do it by hand but there's so many paths that need to be stroked and then have an outer glow added to them that I was trying to find the quickest way of doing it. Laziness on my part.

K1TesseraEna wrote:
@Esper I think Caz is using script-fu version of layerfx (in OP description) which also doesn't support layer groups.

@Caz Create your layers as ungrouped, add outer glow and after you're done editing link the layers and run this script - Layers>Group>Pack Linked Layers.
This script is one of the utility tools that come with Animstack script - find them in Bonus features description.
Although you may never need animation script itself, these utility scripts are very useful.


Thank you I'll have a look into this. It does sound like it could be the answer. If I don't have some of the layers grouped then I'll probably end up with over fifty of them which is likely to get messy.

GnuTux wrote:
Caz wrote:
Each layer also has to have an outer glow added to it

I would like all the layers to remain in the group when they are created. I'm not sure if this is possible but I thought I'd ask just in case there is a way to do it.

Greetings,

GC Shadow supports Layer Groups in GIMP 2.8.x, while maintaining compatibility with GIMP 2.6.x.

http://gimpscripts.com/2013/05/gc-shadow/


Thanks. I've downloaded this. It looks different to how the outer glow script works so I'll have a play around and see if I can get the effect I'm after.

Thanks everyone for all the help.

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 Post subject: Re: Layer group problem.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 9:45 am  (#7) 
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Caz wrote:
It looks different to how the outer glow script works so I'll have a play around and see if I can get the effect I'm after.

The script supports inner and outer glow, even using gradients. If you could, please let me know if there is something it doesn't do, or perhaps can do better, and maybe I can improve the script. :yup

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 Post subject: Re: Layer group problem.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 4:57 pm  (#8) 
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Can't you link all the layers in a group and run the script once on any single linked layer to effect them all?

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 Post subject: Re: Layer group problem.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:04 pm  (#9) 
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Rod wrote:
Can't you link all the layers in a group and run the script once on any single linked layer to effect them all?

interesting suggestion !
i didnt know that was possible

i tried it, works as expected
the only disadvantage is that it merges all the glows in one layer


it seems to me, GnuTux' GC Shadow is the best solution so far


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 Post subject: Re: Layer group problem.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:47 pm  (#10) 
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When I run GC Shadow Inner Shadow on linked layer(s) it doesn't execute as expected, placing
the shadow outside. And it still works on active layer only ignoring other linked layers.

Esper wrote:
it seems to me, GnuTux' GC Shadow is the best solution so far


What if I need to run Satin or Bevel? I think Caz's question addresses a broader issue (layer group restrictions)


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 Post subject: Re: Layer group problem.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 6:08 pm  (#11) 
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I don't understand why it wouldn't work to link all the layers and run the glow on one layer to effect all of them keeping them as separate layers. Why is the script grouping/merging all the effected layers? It shouldn't.
Group layers bug perhaps? Can you please try and do it on un grouped layers once.

Ofnuts wrote me a script once that auto crops all linked layers. I wonder if it is possible to amend that script to add other effects to linked layers correctly keeping all the layers separate? Something to ask Ofnuts i guess. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Layer group problem.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 6:10 pm  (#12) 
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K1TesseraEna wrote:
When I run GC Shadow Inner Shadow on linked layer(s) it doesn't execute as expected, placing
the shadow outside. And it still works on active layer only ignoring other linked layers.

i did it with layerfx Outer Glow

yes, the layer is created outside the group, but because its only one layer i dont think thats a problem

K1TesseraEna wrote:
What if I need to run Satin or Bevel? I think Caz's question addresses a broader issue (layer group restrictions)

i dont know, i think Caz's question was restricted to this one particular case
i know what you mean, but that question is pretty academic

maybe it will be solved in a future version of Gimp

as far as i can remember Jonathan Stipe didnt update/debug his layerfx because the problem with layergroups has something to do with how Gimp works, not his scripts/plug-in

you see in my opinion, layerfx as an emulation of PS's layer styles only works so good
layer styles is still vastly superior in so many ways
i dont even know how they did it - it does not appear bevelling is actually done with bump-mapping
have you ever tried the bevelling on PS ?
the bevel is like liquid and everything is rendered almost instantaneously

and what i would rather like to see, is something like PS actions
a way to record a workflow and transfer it
the only thing we have is a script


Last edited by Esper on Wed Dec 25, 2013 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Layer group problem.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 6:15 pm  (#13) 
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Rod wrote:
Group layers bug perhaps?

isnt that a known issue ?

i think modes dont work with layergroups as well, do they ?

at the moment the only real use for layergroups is uncluttering your layer-tab
at least that is the conclusion that i came to


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 Post subject: Re: Layer group problem.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 6:44 pm  (#14) 
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@Rod just tried to run layerfx on linked layers without layer group - the result is the same.
Tried with text layers and blocks. Same with GnuTux script. Weird

@Esper You're right, Layer groups in GIMP still remains mostly under-developed feature but they (the devs)
promise to clean up the mess. So far the only use is to hide gazillion layers outta the way.
Layer Styles in PS has a different concept, completely non-destructive. Not sure how they work
but my guess it has something to do with linear color transformation vs GIMP's non-linear.
GEGL will make linear CT possible, which opens up the door to smart objects and adjustment layers in GIMP
and many other things.


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 Post subject: Re: Layer group problem.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 6:54 pm  (#15) 
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@K1te: this sounds great !

on the other hand i think you still have to look at the differences betweeen Gimp and PS

PS is aimed at professionals, thats exactly the reason why they had actions in the early 90ies
i mean as a professional you dont want to sit all day and try to get a text effect right (if you use them at all), i guess
you just load a style, maybe tweak it a bit and then its done

Gimp on the other hand is clearly a hobbyist program
just look at this forum - you were the one who (rightfully) told me, i lost my audience :mrgreen:
and even here the majority is not very much interested in complicated texteffects
thats why scripts are so popular - one click effects, thats what the crowd wants

i think for the majority of stuff you possibly wanna do and use, a simple bevel is most of the time enough
even more true when you look at the minimalistic stuff you now enjoy and do


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 Post subject: Re: Layer group problem.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:14 pm  (#16) 
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Esper wrote:
just look at this forum - you were the one who (rightfully) told me, i lost my audience :mrgreen:
and even here the majority is not very much interested in complicated texteffects
thats why scripts are so popular - one click effects, thats what the crowd wants

i think for the majority of stuff you possibly wanna do and use, a simple bevel is most of the time enough
even more true when you look at the minimalistic stuff you now enjoy and do


hmm.... you didn't lose your audience, you haven't found the right audience yet.
About script junkies you're right right right. I am with you on that, never wanted to be a 'filter guy'
If that's something everyone can do with a script - thank you, not interested.
It's like a work without personality. Best case scenario is diversifying it to some extent.
This is why i admire pro designers work - they try hard, go off the beaten path, do innovative stuff.
I actually started enjoying tedious manual work. It's like a craft vs cheating, not easy to reproduce.


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 Post subject: Re: Layer group problem.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:28 pm  (#17) 
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I'm sure all the script users and writers are happy to hear how they are somehow inferior to all those who refuse to stoop down to their lowly level.

Yes, they could create a new image, add some text, alpha to selection, sel to path, stroke path, duplicate the text, blur it (oops ..they had to use a blur script, they must be scum) and then, offset it to make a shadow.

Or, they could use a script to do these repetitive tasks, leaving extra time for them to focus on more creative aspects of design. I guess those are the truly misguided ones. :cool

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 Post subject: Re: Layer group problem.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:40 pm  (#18) 
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big daddy is mad again

but i guess you dont mean it

last to time you typed "feel free to comment", that really included only all the good things, right

everything else was chinese

*smh*


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 Post subject: Re: Layer group problem.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:43 pm  (#19) 
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You're welcome to your opinion & I'm welcome to mine. You should probably expect push back when you attack. What I don't care much for are the personal attacks, like the name calling of "Big Daddy". You can leave that kind of thing at the door.

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 Post subject: Re: Layer group problem.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:59 pm  (#20) 
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GnuTux wrote:
I'm sure all the script users and writers are happy to hear how they are somehow inferior to all those who refuse to to stoop down to their lowly level.

Yes, they could create a new image, add some text, alpha to selection, sel to path, stroke path, duplicate the text, blur it (oops ..they had to use a blur script, they must be scum) and then, offset it to make a shadow.

Or, they could use a script to do these repetitive tasks, leaving extra time for them to focus on more creative aspects of design. I guess those are the truly misguided ones. :cool


This is merely a continuation of my and Esper conversation started a long time ago.
It did pertain only to some specific scripts. Blur is the most used plugin in my work. :hehe
Script writers have a better knowledge of the program than I'll ever have. How's that for superiority? :lol
Yes, script writers show the way, however, they are not in the driver's seat.
As for the script users - it's the matter of personal taste and their goal at hand.
I have my opinion on that, it could be wrong or right, but that's how I feel.


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