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 Post subject: watermark advice?
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 2:32 pm  (#1) 
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hi,

Assume somebody really wants to steal your picture, somebody who really intends to steal your picture and try to remove your watermark and "repair"
the picture or trying to make your watermark less observable etc. And you can assume he is with some advanced photo editing skills so if it's technically possible, he is technically possible.

what is the best way or the best design of a watermark so as to make it
the most destructive to the pictures while not affecting the viewing experience so much?

Any advice??

Here Just an EXAMPLE. For anywhere you watermark the picture , I guess it's quite possible to be "repaired" the watermark

For example, in this case, if I must watermark this picture (Just an example, this picture is not belong to me). What's your advice for the design of the watermark so as to make it nightmare to the theft while preserving the viewing experience?

I'd not just put a small watermark at the corner like this one, it's just too easy to steal by simple cropping a little bit

Attachment:
img2.10bestmedia.com captiva-beach-captiva_54_990x660_201404211817.jpg
img2.10bestmedia.com captiva-beach-captiva_54_990x660_201404211817.jpg [ 181.47 KiB | Viewed 4583 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: watermark advice?
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 4:14 pm  (#2) 
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Why bother? Seriously - watermarking does nothing to deter a determined person, and anything that makes it destructive to repair will inevitably detract from an image too much in my opinion.

Also, is the example image you posted free to share?

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 Post subject: Re: watermark advice?
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 2:54 am  (#3) 
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You cannot prevent "theft" once you publish. What you need to be able to do is prove in court that the picture is yours (for when someone makes some real money with your image). For this possible proofs are:

- higher definition image
- original, uncropped image
- other images in the same sequence (photography)
- original multi-layer image (if CGI done with Gimp or else)

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 Post subject: Re: watermark advice?
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 3:55 pm  (#4) 
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ofnuts wrote:
You cannot prevent "theft" once you publish. What you need to be able to do is prove in court that the picture is yours (for when someone makes some real money with your image). For this possible proofs are:

- higher definition image
- original, uncropped image
- other images in the same sequence (photography)
- original multi-layer image (if CGI done with Gimp or else)


Prove it court?? haha
Not everything worth the effort and cost of undergoing court process.
Just like internet downloads. Always new uploads, free downloads, who will bother undergoing court process? it's not worth! and court is not the only way to solve problems, and in fact it's the last way in my opinion to solve problems.!!

I don't know why whenever I ask about watermark questions ,some
people are just starting to be unfriendly and unhelpful.

No problems if you guys unable to help, I must be able to figure it out by myself the best way to add watermarks

On day 1 that I use GIMP, I am creating watermarks


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 Post subject: Re: watermark advice?
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 7:07 pm  (#5) 
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Sorry, we're not trying to be unhelpful. It's just that, to me at least, you're asking for two things that are at odds with each other:

Quote:
What's your advice for the design of the watermark so as to make it nightmare to the theft while preserving the viewing experience?


To me, this is like asking how to make an omelet without breaking the eggs. ☺

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 Post subject: Re: watermark advice?
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 7:26 pm  (#6) 
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patdavid wrote:
Sorry, we're not trying to be unhelpful. It's just that, to me at least, you're asking for two things that are at odds with each other:

Quote:
What's your advice for the design of the watermark so as to make it nightmare to the theft while preserving the viewing experience?


To me, this is like asking how to make an omelet without breaking the eggs. ☺


I totally agree with this. It is impossible to watermark something while not taking away...but maybe you can have hard boiled eggs instead... though you still have to break the eggs to consume it.
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 Post subject: Re: watermark advice?
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 7:29 pm  (#7) 
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kenny1999 wrote:

I don't know why whenever I ask about watermark questions ,some
people are just starting to be unfriendly and unhelpful.

No problems if you guys unable to help, I must be able to figure it out by myself the best way to add watermarks

On day 1 that I use GIMP, I am creating watermarks


You couldn't find a friendlier bunch of people right here on Gimp Chat and they are helpful - you just need to ask the right questions the right way.
Your Exif (photo information) should keep your photo reasonably safe. If you just want to make a mark to distinguish your photos from other photographers, look around and see what other people are doing.
If you are already creating watermarks then you don't need much help in my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: watermark advice?
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 7:56 pm  (#8) 
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There are 100 reasons to watermark, otherwise there won't be such a vocabulary appearing - watermark


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 Post subject: Re: watermark advice?
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 8:49 pm  (#9) 
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Freeware Watermark Creator


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 Post subject: ~
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 9:40 pm  (#10) 
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~

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Last edited by Zeo on Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: watermark advice?
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 12:16 am  (#11) 
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There are invisible watermarks,
which only appear when the images is duplicated and the layer mode set to grain merge or gain extract,
or something like that.
But this kind of defeats the purpose of a watermark.

Some artist add tiny drawing,
within an image that only they are aware of.
This may be an alternative way of "safeguarding" ones work.
I've done this,
it doesn't detract from the piece and also may afford some piece of mind.

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 Post subject: Re: watermark advice?
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 4:51 am  (#12) 
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Wallace wrote:
There are invisible watermarks,
which only appear when the images is duplicated and the layer mode set to grain merge or gain extract,
or something like that.
But this kind of defeats the purpose of a watermark.

Some artist add tiny drawing,
within an image that only they are aware of.
This may be an alternative way of "safeguarding" ones work.
I've done this,
it doesn't detract from the piece and also may afford some piece of mind.



Invisible Watermarks??? If it's Jpg/jpeg/png etc I guess that won't work
right?

If it's XCF or something , then that could also be removed by theft perfectly right


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 Post subject: Re: watermark advice?
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 5:17 am  (#13) 
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steven8 wrote:


Please click this link, and you can watermark your images to your heart's content.


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 Post subject: Re: watermark advice?
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 2:08 pm  (#14) 
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kenny1999 wrote:

Invisible Watermarks??? If it's Jpg/jpeg/png etc I guess that won't work
right?

If it's XCF or something , then that could also be removed by theft perfectly right

It's suppose to work on any image file type,
but I've never used this process.
It's only something I've read about.

I've seen it done to png and jpg image.
When the image with this kind of mark is opened in a photo editing program and the levels are adjusted,
the watermark appears in the image.
So you can't see the mark,
unless it's opened in some kind of photo editing program and adjusted.

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 Post subject: Re: watermark advice?
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 5:07 am  (#15) 
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kenny1999 wrote:

Prove it court?? haha
Not everything worth the effort and cost of undergoing court process.


Court process, maybe not, but you will have enough clout to show someone that you could success if you did... And if you aren't ready to go to court, then you what are you trying to protect you against?

kenny1999 wrote:
I don't know why whenever I ask about watermark questions ,some
people are just starting to be unfriendly and unhelpful.


Maybe because we know the frivolity of the process... Basically, people steal good pictures. And given the abundance of pictures on the net, they steal the very good pictures(*). Do you think your pictures are in the top 1%?

(*) OK, a counter example: use Google image to find copies of this picture of mine:

http://i.imgur.com/MaPNCj7.jpg

Not very good, still 21 copies by last account... (the folks at Petapixel and DIYPhotography asked for permission). The image isn't good, but part of an interesting how-to. But do I care? Not really .

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Last edited by ofnuts on Sun May 15, 2016 5:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: watermark advice?
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 5:16 am  (#16) 
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Wallace wrote:
kenny1999 wrote:

Invisible Watermarks??? If it's Jpg/jpeg/png etc I guess that won't work
right?

If it's XCF or something , then that could also be removed by theft perfectly right

It's suppose to work on any image file type,
but I've never used this process.
It's only something I've read about.

I've seen it done to png and jpg image.
When the image with this kind of mark is opened in a photo editing program and the levels are adjusted,
the watermark appears in the image.
So you can't see the mark,
unless it's opened in some kind of photo editing program and adjusted.

I have done it and it sorta works:
- Do a Fourier transform
- Write whatever you want
- Invert Fourier transform (you may have to crop the borders)

Then take the picture and crop a part. Then apply the FFT transform on that and see if your signature is still distinguishable.

However... note that this not worth it as a theft protection, there are much more efficient ways to prove that you are the author of the image. This can however be used to find which copy of the image is leaked if you give a copy of the image to several people.

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